banner
banner

22 May 2025, 13:52 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


B-Kool (Top/Bottom Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 4188 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266 ... 280  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 14:06 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20035
Post Likes: +25093
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Would like help to get this straight... :)

II/Bravo are 550s

V/Ultra/Encore are 560s

550 are all set of dimensions and 560s are another? Everyone was booted wings but the Encore?

My current understanding (please confirm before assuming this is reliable):

All the 550/II/SII/Bravo are the same size, 6 side windows.

All the 560/V/Ultra/Encore/Encore+ are the same size, about 20 inches longer than the 550s, 7 side windows.

Citation II are "straight" 550s. Characterized by constant taper wing, single panel flaps, JT15D-4 engines, booted wing deice, 6 side windows.

Also there is a 551, A Citation IISP, which is the same airplane as the 550, but weight limited to allow single pilot certification under part 23.

Citation SII is an S550. Characterized by a wing with bent leading edge, two panel flaps, JT15D-4B engines, TKS deice, lots more fuel capacity. The new wing allowed for higher speeds and shorter runway use. The -4B engine was tweaked to give it higher power at altitude, and the MGTOW was increased. The SII has more in common with the V than the II series.

(There's a 552, special version for Navy of the SII with higher power engines, all but one of them burned in a hangar fire in 1993 in Topeka, KS.)

Citation Bravo is a 550 with straight wing, but with PW530A engines, trialing link gear, Primus avionics. Used boots for deice.

Citation V is a 560. Basically takes the SII wing, removes TKS and uses boots, changes engines to JT15D-5A. Has 7 side windows and is longer, higher weight. Delivered with steam gauges.

Citation V Ultra is a V but with "integrated" Honeywell Primus 1000 avionics and engine changed to JT15D-5D to give it a bit more thrust. Still has boots.

Citation Encore is a 560 but with bleed air wing deice and using a PW535A engines. Still has Primus 1000. Has trailing link landing gear. Fuel capacity reduced over SII/V/Ultra due to bleed air leading edge and trailing link gear size.

Citation Encore+ is a 560 but with PW535B engines and Proline 21 avionics.

Quote:
OK, now what is the super short difference between 500 and 501. Besides old and older....

500 was the original Citation/FanJet 500. There are variations such as short wing and long wing varieties.

501 was a single pilot version of the 500 under part 23.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Last edited on 03 Mar 2019, 19:00, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 16:48 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 5183
Post Likes: +5176
Aircraft: C501, R66, A36
Username Protected wrote:
If you have the 500 hours turbine for SP Waiver, the Citation II has to be the greatest value in aviation today.


Right up to the moment you fly a Citation V with a Garmin panel. That’s the sleek new model with long legs that rocks you back in your seat and gets you high in no time that will steal you away from your 550 sweetheart. Don’t get too attached. Just sayin.


I flew a friend's V to CA and back this past week. Animalistic acceleration and climb. I made it from CA to FL non-stop with 900lbs left (VFR). Amazing airplane. However, I think it's a big step up in cost, fuel and mx. I don't have any parted out Vs to cannibalize and that's a big part of Cheap II operation. I have 2 big couches in my II that my family prefers over the individual seats in the V. A II is 85% of a V for 1/3 the money, that math works for me.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 16:53 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14281
Post Likes: +11974
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Keep telling yourself that Michael T. Lease that bad girl and let the other guy worry about it.

_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 17:13 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 18470
Post Likes: +28390
Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
The part I liked about leasing was when the flight was done, I wrote up what was wrong with the bird and left the keys :D
But, it wasn't always there when you needed it.

_________________
Dave Siciliano, ATP


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 17:38 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14281
Post Likes: +11974
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
The part I liked about leasing was when the flight was done, I wrote up what was wrong with the bird and left the keys :D
But, it wasn't always there when you needed it.


That’s why I have 7 jet leases. 3 550’s, 560, 2 CJ2’s, 1 C510. 3 type ratings mind you.

_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 17:52 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13409
Post Likes: +7493
Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
Username Protected wrote:

That’s why I have 7 jet leases. 3 550’s, 560, 2 CJ2’s, 1 C510. 3 type ratings mind you.


The only thing better than having 7 jet leases...having a buddy with 7 jet leases.

_________________
Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients
My E55 : https://tinyurl.com/4dvxhwxu


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 17:53 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14281
Post Likes: +11974
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:

That’s why I have 7 jet leases. 3 550’s, 560, 2 CJ2’s, 1 C510. 3 type ratings mind you.


The only thing better than having 7 jet leases...having a buddy with 7 jet leases.


Do I know you?

Oh...that’s right. You are that narcissistic kabillionaire who used to have a very nice 421 with the most f*$&ed up panel know to mankind.

What’s shaking?

:beechslap:
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:05 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13409
Post Likes: +7493
Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
Username Protected wrote:

Do I know you?


Well enough to know what I’ll say next...

_________________
Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients
My E55 : https://tinyurl.com/4dvxhwxu


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:09 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14281
Post Likes: +11974
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:

Do I know you?


Well enough to know what I’ll say next...


Indeed. FUUFF. :bud:
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:37 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 18470
Post Likes: +28390
Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
Fun to see what you’ve done. Humbly started this thread and am dumbfounded about what I stirred up.

_________________
Dave Siciliano, ATP


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:42 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/15/11
Posts: 2575
Post Likes: +1178
Location: Mandan, ND
Aircraft: V35
Username Protected wrote:
Would like help to get this straight... :)

II/Bravo are 550s

V/Ultra/Encore are 560s

550 are all set of dimensions and 560s are another? Everyone was booted wings but the Encore?

????

OK, now what is the super short difference between 500 and 501. Besides old and older....


550’s = IIs, S/Ii (weeping wing and V wing), 551 (sp II), Bravo (training link lg, different engines and Avionics)

560 = V, Ultra (engines and avionics) Encore (engine, hot wing, trailing link), Encore Plus (Avionics )

Don’t know much about 500/501

They can all be flown using the 500 type rating. They can all be flown SP. 550 and above require a SP wavier. Except the 551


Thanks Mark, very helpful!

Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:45 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/15/11
Posts: 2575
Post Likes: +1178
Location: Mandan, ND
Aircraft: V35
Username Protected wrote:
Would like help to get this straight... :)

II/Bravo are 550s

V/Ultra/Encore are 560s

550 are all set of dimensions and 560s are another? Everyone was booted wings but the Encore?

My current understanding (please confirm before assuming this is reliable):

All the 550/II/SII/Bravo are the same size, 6 side windows.

All the 560/V/Ultra/Encore/Encore+ are the same size, about 20 inches longer than the 550s, 7 side windows.

Citation II are "straight" 550s. Characterized by constant taper wing, single panel flaps, JT15D-4 engines, booted wing deice, 6 side windows.

Also there is a 551, A Citation IISP, which is the same airplane as the 550, but weight limited to allow single pilot certification under part 23.

Citation SII is an S550. Characterized by a wing with bent leading edge, two panel flaps, JT15D-4B engines, TKS deice, lots more fuel capacity. The new wing allowed for higher speeds and shorter runway use. The -4B engine was tweaked to give it higher power at altitude, and the MTGW was increased. The SII has more in common with the V than the II series.

(There's a 552, special version for Navy of the SII with higher power engines, all but one of them burned in a hangar fire in 1993 in Topeka, KS.)

Citation Bravo is a 550 with straight wing, but with PW530A engines, trialing link gear, Primus avionics. Used boots for deice.

Citation V is a 560. Basically takes the SII wing, removes TKS and uses boots, changes engines to JT15D-5A. Has 7 side windows and is longer, higher weight. Delivered with steam gauges.

Citation V Ultra is a V but with "integrated" Honeywell Primus 1000 avionics and engine changed to JT15D-5D to give it a bit more thrust. Still has boots.

Citation Encore is a 560 but with bleed air wing deice and using a PW535A engines. Still has Primus 1000. Has trailing link landing gear. Fule capacity reduced over SII/V/Ultra due to bleed air leading edge and trailing link gear size.

Citation Encore+ is a 560 but with PW535B engines and Proline 21 avionics.

Quote:
OK, now what is the super short difference between 500 and 501. Besides old and older....

500 was the original Citation/FanJet 500. There are variations such as short wing and long wing varieties.

501 was a single pilot version of the 500 under part 23.

Mike C.


Awesome, Mike! Thanks!

Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 20:47 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4438
Post Likes: +3303
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
Username Protected wrote:
You’re flying a Citation and the hydraulic flow and low level lights come on.

You head to an airport knowing you need to blow the gear down. You pull the uplocks and blow the donut.

On landing you have no brakes and have to pull the emergency brake.

What happened?


Did this happen to you?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 20:53 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13409
Post Likes: +7493
Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
Sim scenario. Rapid climb to 3000 and dual flameout.

_________________
Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients
My E55 : https://tinyurl.com/4dvxhwxu


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 21:06 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20035
Post Likes: +25093
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Sim scenario.

Sometimes sims miss these little dependencies, so someone was paying attention when they wrote the sim logic. Thanks for presenting the scenario, made me go read the manuals a bit and learn something.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 4188 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266 ... 280  Next



PWI, Inc. (Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025

.Wingman 85x50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.SCA.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.performanceaero-85x50.jpg.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.ocraviation-85x50.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.KingAirMaint85_50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.aerox_85x100.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.b-kool-85x50.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.rnp.85x50.png.
.Elite-85x50.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.holymicro-85x50.jpg.
.mcfarlane-85x50.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.