22 May 2025, 11:28 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 14:06 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20035 Post Likes: +25081 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Would like help to get this straight... :)
II/Bravo are 550s
V/Ultra/Encore are 560s
550 are all set of dimensions and 560s are another? Everyone was booted wings but the Encore? My current understanding (please confirm before assuming this is reliable): All the 550/II/SII/Bravo are the same size, 6 side windows. All the 560/V/Ultra/Encore/Encore+ are the same size, about 20 inches longer than the 550s, 7 side windows. Citation II are "straight" 550s. Characterized by constant taper wing, single panel flaps, JT15D-4 engines, booted wing deice, 6 side windows. Also there is a 551, A Citation IISP, which is the same airplane as the 550, but weight limited to allow single pilot certification under part 23. Citation SII is an S550. Characterized by a wing with bent leading edge, two panel flaps, JT15D-4B engines, TKS deice, lots more fuel capacity. The new wing allowed for higher speeds and shorter runway use. The -4B engine was tweaked to give it higher power at altitude, and the MGTOW was increased. The SII has more in common with the V than the II series. (There's a 552, special version for Navy of the SII with higher power engines, all but one of them burned in a hangar fire in 1993 in Topeka, KS.) Citation Bravo is a 550 with straight wing, but with PW530A engines, trialing link gear, Primus avionics. Used boots for deice. Citation V is a 560. Basically takes the SII wing, removes TKS and uses boots, changes engines to JT15D-5A. Has 7 side windows and is longer, higher weight. Delivered with steam gauges. Citation V Ultra is a V but with "integrated" Honeywell Primus 1000 avionics and engine changed to JT15D-5D to give it a bit more thrust. Still has boots. Citation Encore is a 560 but with bleed air wing deice and using a PW535A engines. Still has Primus 1000. Has trailing link landing gear. Fuel capacity reduced over SII/V/Ultra due to bleed air leading edge and trailing link gear size. Citation Encore+ is a 560 but with PW535B engines and Proline 21 avionics. Quote: OK, now what is the super short difference between 500 and 501. Besides old and older.... 500 was the original Citation/FanJet 500. There are variations such as short wing and long wing varieties. 501 was a single pilot version of the 500 under part 23. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
Last edited on 03 Mar 2019, 19:00, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 16:48 |
|
 |

|

|
Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 5183 Post Likes: +5174
Aircraft: C501, R66, A36
|
|
Username Protected wrote: If you have the 500 hours turbine for SP Waiver, the Citation II has to be the greatest value in aviation today. Right up to the moment you fly a Citation V with a Garmin panel. That’s the sleek new model with long legs that rocks you back in your seat and gets you high in no time that will steal you away from your 550 sweetheart. Don’t get too attached. Just sayin.
I flew a friend's V to CA and back this past week. Animalistic acceleration and climb. I made it from CA to FL non-stop with 900lbs left (VFR). Amazing airplane. However, I think it's a big step up in cost, fuel and mx. I don't have any parted out Vs to cannibalize and that's a big part of Cheap II operation. I have 2 big couches in my II that my family prefers over the individual seats in the V. A II is 85% of a V for 1/3 the money, that math works for me.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 17:13 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 18470 Post Likes: +28390 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
|
|
The part I liked about leasing was when the flight was done, I wrote up what was wrong with the bird and left the keys But, it wasn't always there when you needed it.
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 17:38 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14278 Post Likes: +11963 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The part I liked about leasing was when the flight was done, I wrote up what was wrong with the bird and left the keys But, it wasn't always there when you needed it. That’s why I have 7 jet leases. 3 550’s, 560, 2 CJ2’s, 1 C510. 3 type ratings mind you.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 17:52 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 01/31/10 Posts: 13409 Post Likes: +7493 Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
|
|
Username Protected wrote: That’s why I have 7 jet leases. 3 550’s, 560, 2 CJ2’s, 1 C510. 3 type ratings mind you.
The only thing better than having 7 jet leases...having a buddy with 7 jet leases.
_________________ Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients My E55 : https://tinyurl.com/4dvxhwxu
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 17:53 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14278 Post Likes: +11963 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
|
|
Username Protected wrote: That’s why I have 7 jet leases. 3 550’s, 560, 2 CJ2’s, 1 C510. 3 type ratings mind you.
The only thing better than having 7 jet leases...having a buddy with 7 jet leases.
Do I know you?
Oh...that’s right. You are that narcissistic kabillionaire who used to have a very nice 421 with the most f*$&ed up panel know to mankind.
What’s shaking?
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:05 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 01/31/10 Posts: 13409 Post Likes: +7493 Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Do I know you?
Well enough to know what I’ll say next...
_________________ Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients My E55 : https://tinyurl.com/4dvxhwxu
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:09 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14278 Post Likes: +11963 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Do I know you?
Well enough to know what I’ll say next...
Indeed. FUUFF.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:42 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 08/15/11 Posts: 2575 Post Likes: +1178 Location: Mandan, ND
Aircraft: V35
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Would like help to get this straight...  II/Bravo are 550s V/Ultra/Encore are 560s 550 are all set of dimensions and 560s are another? Everyone was booted wings but the Encore? ???? OK, now what is the super short difference between 500 and 501. Besides old and older.... 550’s = IIs, S/Ii (weeping wing and V wing), 551 (sp II), Bravo (training link lg, different engines and Avionics) 560 = V, Ultra (engines and avionics) Encore (engine, hot wing, trailing link), Encore Plus (Avionics ) Don’t know much about 500/501 They can all be flown using the 500 type rating. They can all be flown SP. 550 and above require a SP wavier. Except the 551
Thanks Mark, very helpful!
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 18:45 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 08/15/11 Posts: 2575 Post Likes: +1178 Location: Mandan, ND
Aircraft: V35
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Would like help to get this straight...  II/Bravo are 550s V/Ultra/Encore are 560s 550 are all set of dimensions and 560s are another? Everyone was booted wings but the Encore? My current understanding (please confirm before assuming this is reliable): All the 550/II/SII/Bravo are the same size, 6 side windows. All the 560/V/Ultra/Encore/Encore+ are the same size, about 20 inches longer than the 550s, 7 side windows. Citation II are "straight" 550s. Characterized by constant taper wing, single panel flaps, JT15D-4 engines, booted wing deice, 6 side windows. Also there is a 551, A Citation IISP, which is the same airplane as the 550, but weight limited to allow single pilot certification under part 23. Citation SII is an S550. Characterized by a wing with bent leading edge, two panel flaps, JT15D-4B engines, TKS deice, lots more fuel capacity. The new wing allowed for higher speeds and shorter runway use. The -4B engine was tweaked to give it higher power at altitude, and the MTGW was increased. The SII has more in common with the V than the II series. (There's a 552, special version for Navy of the SII with higher power engines, all but one of them burned in a hangar fire in 1993 in Topeka, KS.) Citation Bravo is a 550 with straight wing, but with PW530A engines, trialing link gear, Primus avionics. Used boots for deice. Citation V is a 560. Basically takes the SII wing, removes TKS and uses boots, changes engines to JT15D-5A. Has 7 side windows and is longer, higher weight. Delivered with steam gauges. Citation V Ultra is a V but with "integrated" Honeywell Primus 1000 avionics and engine changed to JT15D-5D to give it a bit more thrust. Still has boots. Citation Encore is a 560 but with bleed air wing deice and using a PW535A engines. Still has Primus 1000. Has trailing link landing gear. Fule capacity reduced over SII/V/Ultra due to bleed air leading edge and trailing link gear size. Citation Encore+ is a 560 but with PW535B engines and Proline 21 avionics. Quote: OK, now what is the super short difference between 500 and 501. Besides old and older.... 500 was the original Citation/FanJet 500. There are variations such as short wing and long wing varieties. 501 was a single pilot version of the 500 under part 23. Mike C.
Awesome, Mike! Thanks!
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 20:47 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4438 Post Likes: +3303
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
|
|
Username Protected wrote: You’re flying a Citation and the hydraulic flow and low level lights come on.
You head to an airport knowing you need to blow the gear down. You pull the uplocks and blow the donut.
On landing you have no brakes and have to pull the emergency brake.
What happened? Did this happen to you?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 03 Mar 2019, 21:06 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20035 Post Likes: +25081 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Sim scenario. Sometimes sims miss these little dependencies, so someone was paying attention when they wrote the sim logic. Thanks for presenting the scenario, made me go read the manuals a bit and learn something. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|