Hi All-

Glad to be a new member of the BeechTalk forum.

If you wouldn't mind, I kindly request any feedback that you may have with regard to my question below. First, a bit of background:

After several years of thought, I have decided to finally pursue becoming a pilot (VFR and IFR). I live in Arizona and will likely do most of my flying for business and pleasure between Arizona and Calfornia (statewide). For my varied purposes, a Bo A36 or B36, with the full complement of modern glass cockpit avionics seems like the ideal plane for me.

To that end, I want to ensure that I am making the best decision possible with regard to my training choices, in terms of specific aircraft and avionics in/on which to learn:

Knowing that I will likely end up as the owner of my own Bo, am I better served to do my training with a flight school that uses:

- A low wing aircraft, like a Cirrus SR20/22 with a full glass cockpit?,
- A high wing aircraft, like a Cessna 172, with standard gauges?
- A high wing aircraft, like a Cessna 172, with a full glass cockpit?
- A combination of aircraft?
- Perhaps there are some other considerations that I am not even correctly considering?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you may have!

-Bravo J

I would be less concerned about which plane I chose for training. Either 172 is a fine plane to learn in. You need to feel comfortable with the quality of the equipment. While you could learn in a Cirrus, I am not sure I would. The 172 is a plane built for the training environment. I am sure people will provide good reasons to use the Cirrus but it would not be my choice.

I would focus on who was teaching me and the course of study. Finding an instructor that is good at teaching you is the most important aspect. Most people who have a CFI can fly the plane real well. That really does not matter, what is important is how well they can communicate to you and progress you through a program of study that both matches your life and how you learn.

You seem to have your goal in hand so the next step is to really understand how to progress from student to there in a safe manner that aligns with your expectations. All it will take is Time, Commitment and Money. The first and 2nd are the most important but without the third you may not progress on schedule.

Go with the basic C172 ...Learn to be a pilot first, become a systems manager later.

I'm not an instructor, but I'd recommend a C172 with standard gauges for your primary license. The high wing on the C172 will keep you honest as you learn how to land. If you don't do a good job you can tell it in the C172, but you won't break or bend anything. A Bonanza will cover up landing mistakes and make you look good when you actually need to work on some things. Learn to use the standard gauges, and keep your eyes out the window instead of tinkering with electronics. If you have an electronic panel for this, just ignore 99% of what it is doing. For the PPL you are trying to train your hands, feet, and eyes to fly. Some instructors will even cover instruments or forbid you to look at them... using eyes and ears to determine airspeed and altitude. Highly recommended.

If you plan on buying a retract like a Bonanza then go ahead and get a gear simulator handle and treat it like the real thing. Never land without it down, build your habit without risk.

Once you get your PPL, do your instrument work in an aircraft as close to your target aircraft as possible. Myself and some others have done this, in my case buying an A36 an completing the instrument work in that aircraft.

It sounds like you're approaching it logically. Choose the right tool for the job. In the case of PPL training I don't think it gets much better than a C172. OK, if I had time in a Cub or Champ I might have a different opinion .

Dan

Dan, Ron, David-

Gentlemen, thank you for your thorough,thoughtful and nearly immediate feedback to my post!!

Very helpful info as I consider the first steps for my journey.

-Bravo J

Joel,

I did my training in a Cirrus SR20. It was much better than training in a C172. The C172 is very forgiving and teaches sloppy technique in my opinion. For example, you will see a lot of Cirrus pilots come in fast and float down the runway. I used to land the Cirrus in runways shorter than 2000 on a regular basis. This taught me to control the airspeed really well (e.g. cross the threshold at 50ft and 70knots).

Personally, I prefer glass by a large margin. Getting a "six" pack I think would be a detriment for your longer term goals. The reason is that "glass" reacts faster and is more precise than the older mechanical instruments. The initial skills you build with then be tuned to the "wrong" speed and you will spend more time when transitioning to the plane you buy relearning skills.

With all the above stated. Here is what I would consider is the priority:
1. Get a good instructor
2. Know your mission, do a few demo flights with multiple instructors
3. Get a good instructor that teaches you to fly the plane, not push buttons
4. Make sure the instructor does not spend time pushing buttons. He/she should already know the systems
5. Get a good instructor
6. Go demo a few planes and see what you like
7. Unless timing, funding, or insurance limit you. By your plane and train in it.

Tim

Actually, the less time a new pilot spends looking at the "precise" instruments in front of his nose, the more time he will be looking at the world around him in relation to the aircraft he is wearing. The true art of flying used to be taught in a piper cub with a wet compass for instruments.

I favor starting with the basics in the airplane designed to be a trainer. Pilots who learn to fly by looking outside have basic skills that serve them all their lives. Pilots who start with round gauges can transition to glass easier than the glass panel pilots trying to get by on backup gauges.

Learn to fly well. Then making the transition to the Bonanza will be easy. The most important element is the right instructor.

My $.02: Train in the round gauge 172. it will only teach bad habits if you have a bad instructor. learn to fly by looking out the three big pieces of plexiglass closest to your head. Glass cockpits tend to draw attention to the panel rather than outside.

Learning on steam gauges will also make a much easier transition to glass later, both for ease and good habits. Learning on glass will make a transition to steam later and/or renting different steam gauge AC.

Something with a wheel on the tail.

I vote for the simple airplane--first--

--then solo, and fly for a while, then get a few hours of dual in the Cirrus SR20--then finish the training and check ride in the simple airplane.

It may take a bit longer to get the PPL this way, but the fun meter will register higher as you get checked out in the Cirrus.

During my training I went from zero to solo in a C150, then I got checked out in a C172 and C177 during the remainder of my PPL training. Learning to fly different planes added a lot of fun to the training experience. Immediately after the PPL I started training for my commercial license and that entailed getting checked out in a 200 hp Musketeer for high performance and a Mooney for complex.

There is one other route I would recommend (I'm a contrarian.): Buy the glass-paneled Bonanza and do all your training in it. That way you'll be ready to move on to your instrument rating immediately, already familiar with the TV screens in the panel, buttonology, etc.

Regardless, we will welcome you into the pilot ranks. I look forward to progress reports as your training progresses.

Good luck and best wishes for happy flying days!