Insurance company says I need a good transition platform prior to king air or twin turbine. Need cabin class or family wont last very long. Please advise on recommendations.

Range: 1000 nm
Features: deice, potty
Don't need pressurization (saving that comfort for a turbine)

Baron wont work and Aerostar is probably not an option.

I have 1600 hours, single engine IFR and commercial

Thank you.

I thought the 414 was presurized ?
Maybe your talking about a 402?

Christan,

I'd suggest you need another insurance company if you're thinking about buying another plane just to transition to a KA. You can easily hire a pilot to fly with you for 25 to 50 hours.

Recently chartered in a 402C and all I can say is that I wasn't impressed at all. Kinda loud and non impressive plane. Kinda like a an old boring station wagon...at 5000 ft running LOP on about 13.8 GPH per side we were doing 172kts

The Navajo Cheiftain handles ice that would bring down a King Air, the Twin Cessnas are not so good. However, for the same speed, the Cheiftain burns 40 GPH vs. 33 GPH (both ROP). And the Cessna has a bigger cabin, although not as much useful load. I think those Lycoming TIO-540-J2BD's are quite a bit more expensive than the Continental TSIO-520-VBs in the 402. A quick check at airpower.com says the TSIO-540-J2BD are 64K a side, vs 37K for the Continental.

Christian,

Find a new insurance company. Just get the the KA PC-12 or TBM. Sure they will require SimCom and 50hours of dual but that will be much cheaper than buying / selling another step up plane.

Tim

I've flown the 310R, 402B, 402C and 404 in a part 135 environment a few years back. The 402C was my favorite, with the 404 close behind.

The 402B with the 310 hp engines was somewhat a wheezer on a hot day and fully loaded (~1200 payload on a hour flight). It was a great "cabin class 310" on a lower budget. It was used as our company truck. One that I flew has been on eBay for about a year with a slightly high price..

I loved the 1500+ hours in the 402C (335 hp engines) as it flew great, was fast (185+KTAS at 6000'), and would carry about everything you could get in the door (1700# payload on an hour flight). It had the newer hydraulic gear system, so you could enter the pattern fast to mix with jet traffic. I took both engines past TBO with only one cylinder (sticky valve guide).

The 404 was a tank, in about every sense of the word. Like the 402C, if you could get the doors closed, it would carry it (2500# on an hour flight). I took myself and nine friends to Oshkosh, about an hour and a half flight, in comfort. The GTSO engines went to TBO if operated well. It's a big "light twin" that flew well, and the trailing link gear made the pilot look great on landings. My experience has shown that it's nearly impossible to carry too much ice, as I found when the boots failed one night. It carried more fuel that most people can stand to sit in an airplane (348 gallons if I remember right).

I only have a few hours in a Navajo Chieftain. The ones that I flew were very nice flying airplanes. The only significant things I remember about them are to engage the starters after shutdown when a cold start is expected as the bendix's sometimes won't engage, and they don't carry much fuel compared to the burn.

Jason

I can comment about the Chieftain.... loved mine, and the engines were fine, regardless of all the comments. Yes, they are expensive, but overall a good engine and I'd argue a better engine than the TSIO 520 crap. However, is not pressurized and not horrible fast compared to a King Air.

And the Chieftain is a big step above the non pressurized Cessnas, however a second choice would be a GOOD 402, still not the same quality.

Now, I didn't burn quite the fuel above, as I'm very conservative, but one could figure ~38 to 40 the first hour and ~32 to 34 every hour thereafter, and plan on a ballpark 180 KTAS. It's a good, comfortable, quiet, easy to fly, plane. Now, going 1000nm is way pushing it, without the aux locker tanks. It won't do the range that the B58 Baron will, but will do in the 800nm range. However, you can load it up pretty good, and put the kids in the wing lockers where they won't scream....

Also, the comments about getting a copilot and just buying what you want make sense. Buying a transition airplane is probably more expensive and you don't get what you want.

To be fair, I told the insurance company that I wanted to get an MU2 because I've heard that the pilot owners love them. Great performance, value and I understand that they require SFAR certification, significant training etc. I told insurance company I was more than willing to pursue and invest the required time and effort but they just laughed at me as they hung up the phone. They told me to stick to a Navajo or even a Duke.

I checked out the Duke in Louisiana thats listed for $120k. It felt very heavy and I'm not at all confident in its ability to maintain even 5,000 on single engine.

To be fair, I told the insurance company that I wanted to get an MU2 because I've heard that the pilot owners love them. Great performance, value and I understand that they require SFAR certification, significant training etc. I told insurance company I was more than willing to pursue and invest the required time and effort but they just laughed at me as they hung up the phone. They told me to stick to a Navajo or even a Duke.

I checked out the Duke in Louisiana thats listed for $120k. It felt very heavy and I'm not at all confident in its ability to maintain even 5,000 on single engine.

If you can afford to skip the piston twin, by all means do that as Rick, Tim and Larry said. Especially if an MU-2 is in your future, you might as well start there and not have to unlearn the piston-twin engine out procedure. MU-2 is a little bit of an odd duck with an engine out and more than one has come to grief from pilots using a piston twin memory items method and not following up with Mitsubishi's published securing checklist.

If you have to go piston twin, but can afford a turbine, I can't see any better twin than a 421C with LR tanks for your mission. Yes, it's pressurized, but your family would so prefer it over anything non-pressurized that I'm wondering if you're asking the right question... Super quiet (no headsets!), spacious, able to use 2500' runways on occasion without too much fuss, easy 200kts. Other than cost (no factor for anyone seriously considering a turbine), what's not to like?

In my mind, for a traveling airplane, once you've paid the (significant) price for turbocharging, you might as well take pressurization. It's not that much more and makes a world of comfort improvement and the turbocharging gives you good options in icing (more altitude range where the airplane performs well).

To answer your direct question, TBone would also work for your originally stated question. I just think it's the wrong question...

+1

They never told me that. Go train in the plane you're going to fly.

When moved to the B55 and then B58 having flown a JetProp Malibu just prior to getting my twin rating, I did so with the thought of moving to the
King Air someday. If a B55 or B58 will suit your needs they are fun and rewarding airplanes that can move on the market significantly easier than a cabin class twin. I think the insurance company just wants you to have a bunch of twin time before moving to the MU2 or KA. A friend is trying to sell his Panther Navajo .. No takers .. but of course his price is too high (approaching $400k).

I agree with skipping the piston twin if possible, but if you must, and don't need the seating of a Chieftain, look at the 310 Navajos. They are a bit faster, and have better short field capabilities, mostly due to lower weight, and the aerodynamicly poorly designed wing lockers on the Chieftain.

Rick

MU2s are fine airplanes but insurance companies are scared of them hence the low purchase price for the plane.