Jason as in plan to fly a PC12 by then.


quote]

Jason,

Perhaps you're attuned to handling those altitudes without ox... but as you grow older and feebler, the ox will be a welcome addition. Or, you'll have to accept a lower altitude. However, how does your plane perform at the 8 to 10K range? I'd suspect not a lot different, and you'd get the same mpg, perhaps a few knows slower.[/quote]

negligible.
My mountain high O2D2 sips o2 and lasts for many hours, I'd say, maybe 15 to 20 hours on a fill, unless I'm feeding 6, in which case it's probably just 4 hours or so, these are just rough guesses, I've not really taken that much notice, it's the cheapest thing I do for flying and worth every penny.

cost to refill at FBO is about $20, so for just me flying it adds $1/hour.

cost to refill DIY is probably just cents, but for $20 I really can't be bothered setting up my own station.

I agree with Tim. I also have the O2D2 and only have to refill my 115 cu ft. aircraft bottle about every six months based on 200 hours per year. I rent two large aviation O2 tanks for $140/yr that I keep in hangar to refill the aircraft bottle. I use the tank with the lowest pressure for the bulk fill and then top off the bottle with the highest pressure tank. I think it costs about $40 to get a tank refill but haven't needed to do so in the past two years.




negligible.
My mountain high O2D2 sips o2 and lasts for many hours, I'd say, maybe 15 to 20 hours on a fill, unless I'm feeding 6, in which case it's probably just 4 hours or so, these are just rough guesses, I've not really taken that much notice, it's the cheapest thing I do for flying and worth every penny.

cost to refill at FBO is about $20, so for just me flying it adds $1/hour.

cost to refill DIY is probably just cents, but for $20 I really can't be bothered setting up my own station.

negligible.
My mountain high O2D2 sips o2 and lasts for many hours, I'd say, maybe 15 to 20 hours on a fill, unless I'm feeding 6, in which case it's probably just 4 hours or so, these are just rough guesses, I've not really taken that much notice, it's the cheapest thing I do for flying and worth every penny.

cost to refill at FBO is about $20, so for just me flying it adds $1/hour.

cost to refill DIY is probably just cents, but for $20 I really can't be bothered setting up my own station.

Hi Don,

That is an absolutely valid observation. A lot of 210s spent their lives as check haulers, and look really haggared.

As far as the TN, I fully admit that I don't ALWAYS go into the teens. I use the TN as a tool to obtain the best time-over-distance that I can. That doesn't always mean going direct, either. Sometimes pressure pattern flying yields the best result, but that usually means a LONG leg.

One of the best tools I've found (and it's free!) is FltPlan.com. If you take the time, and put in the "advanced" performance model, you can get a wind grid that will show your fuel burn and ETE over a large number of altitudes. I pick the altitude(s) that get me there the fastest.

O2 is not expensive at all. I have the large TAT tank, and it's about a $20 fill, and lasts me forever. I don't use the fancy O2 regulators, just a conserving cannula with needle value and a pulseoxmeter to tweak the flow.

Best,
Rich

Hopefully I'll be pressurized turbine before I become and old man. I have 1.5 years til then so I'd better get on it.

Exact figures for operating cost

year 2 but not full year:
$523.58 hourly operating cost minus financing/loan
$858.28 hourly operating cost

year 1
$357.93 hourly operating cost minus financing/loan
$547.87 hourly operating cost

Dang, I'm glad I'm flying a Bo!

Plan on minimum $50,000 per year to achieve dispatch reliability. Really? That sounds pretty high if that is just maintenance. At $100/hour that would be 500 hours maintenance/year.

I have several hundred hours in a Malibu and then several hundred in the same airplane after converting to JetProp.

The good news is that a JetProp conversion Malibu can be had for less than $600k these days.

Some pros and cons:

Pros:
The family will love the JetProp or Malibu.
A high flying pressurized airplane good for Western flying.
At 270 knots, the JetProp is VERY fast so you really can travel long distances in a single day.
The conversion quality (JetProp) is first rate .. no issues there at all.

Cons:
High maintenance ($20,000 annuals are common) - mostly due to the airframe.
Not a rugged airframe.
Stiff handling without a lot of seat of the pants feel. Don't like Pipers.
Airstair door (I didn't like entering through it). The novelty wears off quickly.
Long wings (46 ft) mean forget a standard hangar. Also a bummer on the ramp.
Forget grass fields .. just not that kind of airplane.
Specialized maintenance by one of the big Piper specialized shops (big $$$)

While I was still a partner in the JetProp, I purchased a B55 and fell in love. I now have a B58 and love it. At some point I will look for more utility, safety and speed. King Air.

David - that is very surprising. It's hard to imagine a single engine piston costing that much to operate and maintain. That being said, I spoke to a Malibu driver recently who had later converted to a JetProp. His brother owned a Mirage and he said his brother had spent over $200K maintaining the piston engine while his turbine engine maintenance costs over the same period of time were less that $10K. I believe it was over several years of operating.

I keep hearing the same anecdotal evidence, so I gotta believe it's all factual. What would you say is a reasonable annual budget for annuals, parts and maintenance (not including engine overall costs)? Is a number I saw earlier of $50K a realistic figure?

There's an article in the current Twin and Turbine about Pipers increased revenue this year.

negligible.
My mountain high O2D2 sips o2 and lasts for many hours, I'd say, maybe 15 to 20 hours on a fill, unless I'm feeding 6, in which case it's probably just 4 hours or so, these are just rough guesses, I've not really taken that much notice, it's the cheapest thing I do for flying and worth every penny.

cost to refill at FBO is about $20, so for just me flying it adds $1/hour.

cost to refill DIY is probably just cents, but for $20 I really can't be bothered setting up my own station.

Don,

David provided some updated DOC numbers, his are more in line with mine. My costs were slightly less, but far from the $800, and I did not include net present value or carrying costs of the aircraft as I didnt finance it.

I recall that my cheapest Annual on the Mirage was just over $10K, my most expensive annual was over $25K. I was flying roughly 200 hours a year in the Mirage. I was performing progressive maintenance and always was striving for a squawk free aircraft. I would not be surprised at the $200K figure on engine maintenance when you count he cost of a complete engine change in the $70K+ range. There were times when Lycoming was on strike and field overhauls were the only choice. There were always little maintenance items you needed to attend to, with progressive maintenance my dispatch rate was high and that worked for me. Although there were times when I was across the country and in need of maintenance or fixes. I found that to be less frequent with my Beechcraft aircraft. As Mike mentioned the Jetprop conversion “fixes” many of the limitations of the plane and improves reliability.
If and when I buy another Mirage it will have either the Continental FADEC engine which seems to be getting close to a STC or the Jetprop conversion.

Here is the FADEC STC description:
M-6 features the powerful TCM TSIOF-550-J Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) engine, complimented by the stylish and effective Hartzell 3-blade composite propeller and our popular M-1 cooling mod. The M-6 conversion will be available for both the PA-46 310P (Malibu) and the PA-46 350P (Mirage).

Throughout this STC process, we have worked closely with TCM to develop this new engine specifically for the M-6 FADEC project. During all phases of ground and flight operations, the FADEC system monitors conditions that affect aircraft performance and individually monitors and controls each cylinder based on collected data. As a result, the FADEC system increases aircraft power, decreases fuel usage and provides engine diagnostic information, which can be downloaded and monitored on demand.

The FADEC system is controlled by redundant electronic components, which constantly monitor multiple sensors producing data and reacts to changing conditions before a human would even be aware of them. FADEC then optimizes ignition timing and fuel injection for each cylinder, resulting in optimum power with minimum fuel usage.

The new TSIOF-550-J engine features:
• Full FADEC engine management
• Single-lever power control
• Larger turbochargers
• Higher capacity alternators
• Improved exhaust design to increase durability
• Tapered cylinder barrel fins for weight reduction
The Malibu M-6 incorporates a single-lever power control that brings turbine simplicity to a piston powered aircraft. The FADEC system has built-in redundancy for all components, which means the system always performs as expected, even in the case of partial electrical failure.

Our extensive flight-testing has shown an increase of 15 knots in cruise along with increased fuel economy.


Steve

FADEC sounds sweet but also sounds like it's going to be one seriously pricey STC. If you have an existing Continental, can the STC just add the electronic goodies and new turbos or would it require an entire firewall forward replacement?