Good question and I have been a happy beech guy as well. In general I had ruled out the larger older twins just because of the old and getting older factor of a plane that was last manufactured in the early 80s, and I don't have a friend at my airport looking to partner in one. Given my flight hours over the past two years, a partnership structure makes more sense, and currently I have a great Baron partnership opportunity and potentially a Navajo one (not to introduce another option, but I guess i just did). There is another tread here where the Navajo is compared to the Baron pretty well, short answer is that you can burn more gas and take your whole family, the neighbors' family, and a small piano with you, but not as fun and agile to fly as a Baron and parts are starting to get expensive.

Also, to the turbine posts, I looked at that first--the TBM 700s are starting to get down to $1 million used. The Pilatus is still high, but I think I saw a 90s one for $1.5. Then the second issue is insurance and recurrent training required. It seems like a lot of work to get access to the flight levels, but obviously the safety factor and speed would be nice. I do not have over 1,000 hours yet, so I think that transition might be pretty expensive from an insurance standpoint and i fear the first unforeseen mechanical issue -- having to add a zero from what the Bonanza surprises cost.

SVT is not so expensive if you do a G500 upgrade. We priced one at $21k the other day and it has a "scaled" version of it.

Frankenplane. Funny but true.

The navajo is a very fun plane to fly, but surprisingly slow for its power. The panther conversion with 350hp lycomings is lucky to get over 200KIAS with 2 people onboard (or so I have heard). You can also imagine how much fuel they suck with those engines. There are lots of them flying around in the caribbean and they are considered workhorses but they are pricey. You would be lucky to find a chieftain for under $250G with a poor panel and high times. A navajo can comfortably land on a 2600ft strip no problem and that is one of the great things about it. If you are to partner with one I cannot stress enough that you get one with the crew door, and if you are lucky one with wing lockers as they are harder to find in the straight navajos (not chieftains). Great planes though and I would consider one if they weren't so expensive.

As far as age is concerned, take this as an example. The straight Aero Commander 500 (not A,B...) was built in I believe 1958-1960. It is still regarded as one of the most utilitarian (if that is even the right word, but you know what I mean) light twins you can get, and their low availability on the market is proof of how much they are sought after. This is a 50 year old airplane. They are extremely low maintenance and fast for the type of engines they have. Its the type of plane you can use tape and bubble gum and it will fly. Age is of no consequence aslong as the aircraft is properly designed and maintained. Just my .02

Cheers.[/quote]\

A friend of mine owned and flew a Navajo for years and he said that for fuel burn, there are some economy settings that burn closer to 38 gallons an hour and still get 185 knots true, which is comparable to a Baron's fuel burn ROP and speed is less, but similar with a lot more space and payload. He said intercoolers add a little power and speed vs. non-intercooled turbocharged engines. Interesting, he said his annuals were cheaper in his Navajo than his A-36 he owned before and he had to replace fewer cylinders in the Navajo with two engines than in the Cont. on his Bonanza. Just his experience, sure the law of averages tilts the other way. As for the Aero Commander, I don't have any partnership opportunities in one of those, so it is probably not an option for me, but I see your point.

Larry Olson has operated a Navajo and had similar things to say about it. You may want to pm him.

If you look on the market, there are quite a few Navajos and Chieftains with 12-17000hrs on mid 70s airframes. If there was really no way to operate them economically, folks would have pushed them off into the weeds at some point. The reason why their prices haven't collapsed (like most other piston twins) is the fact that there are still quite a number out there working for a living.

I admit that about a year and a half ago I was seriously considering defecting to the Malibu camp, mainly because I really thought I wanted pressurization (I actually joined MMOPA to be able to pick the owner's brains.) Running the numbers, realistically, a well-maintained Malibu (which is the only way to keep one of those things) flown 100 hours per year would run about 50AMUs just for maintenance. There is also a very interesting split between the Jetprop owners and the Meridian owners, with each group as rabidly passionate about their birds as V-tailers vs straight-tailers here. A Jetprop conversion of a decent Malibu runs about 500AMUs, and gets you a machine with similar but not identical performance to a Meridian. Also, from the discussion on their boards, there are issues emerging with the P&W in the Meridian; the owners of those birds are having to prevail upon P&W to do very expensive repairs under warranty on what you would think is a relatively bullet-proof turbine. As a group, they are unsure about what it is about the installation, but there is some unhappiness there to say the least. The mission is also totally different. Those birds go high, far and fast, but suck so much fuel that their range is less than a Malibu, and at longer distances the Malibu will beat the turbine because they don't have to stop to refuel. The Matrix has the same performance as the Malibu, but because it isn't a puffer-fish (not pressurized in other words) it has the capacity to carry 2 more adults because of all the weight that is saved not strengthening the windows, bulkheads and the pressurization equipment itself. Lastly, IIRC, the PA-46 interior is basically the Navajo.

I've flow 100 hours since April. $50K? Jeez.

I was talking with my guy at the Beech shop yesterday about turbines. He was asking me when I'm gonna make the jump and my answer is always "I don't know". I love my Bonanza. It does so much, so well for so little money.

The bottom line is I need to have more people that need to be carried around (like John Hand) to justify it. All my research says it costs the same amount of money to run a Pilatus as it does a Meridian. So just get the Pilatus. Then you can do whatever you want with whomever you want.

If I had the money to buy a Pilatus I wouldn't look back, but I don't and probably never will so thats enough of that.
Seriously though comparing a PC12 to a Meridian is a joke. Anyone who isn't crazy would go with the Pilatus. Its a no brainer.

Jason, you need a posse, crew, entourage, whatever you call it.

I thought about starting a thread on this. Maybe I will.

I have loads of friends/acquaintances etc. I invite them with me on trips all the time. Guys trips, couples trips, etc. 99% of they time the either say "no" or the bail at the last second.

Literally, here's how it goes... "Hey guys, let's hop in the plane and fly to Atlantis for the weekend and gamble and party and whatever. Flight is on me".

They reply "Nah, I don't have time". or "Nah, I gotta do this or that", etc.

I'm telling you, I think shows like "Friends" and "Entourage" are just B.S. Fantasy. When it comes down to it, unless it's really planned out and commitments are made way ahead of time, most people don't really want to do anything.

You should start a thread. I would guess that almost everyone on this board is flying with one or two adults 99% of the time for those very reasons.

Here is a short list of excuses I hear:

I don't want to leave early in the morning.
I'll go but only if we can come back the same day (500NM trip).
You don't have a bathroom on board and I like to drink a lot of coffee.
Sounds good.... aaah wait there's that tournament on the golf channel this weekend.
You'll cover the flight but what about the hotel room?
I need to get the car washed, pay bills, and buy some fresh milk.
I need to catch-up on some emails
My wife/GF/SO doesn't like me gone that long (this is the most pathetic)
My favorite... Nah I just want to relax this weekend

Man how I wish we could go back to 13 channel TV's, 3 Martini lunches, women that weren't career minded, full bars, conversations uninterrupted by texting, and people who prioritized having a good time.

Hey Jason. I'll go anytime! Oh, wait, I have to clean out the rain gutters and rearrange the sock drawer... sorry!

We were separated at birth Alex.

I get this one all the time too "You'll cover the flight but what about the hotel room?"

Northside hospital was known for that back in the early 70s.
I was born at Piedmont... They didn't have that problem, that means I must claim my brother as truly being mine.... (hasn't flow since 1987 with the exception of my wedding in 2007 )

If a Pilatus is a ticket to do whatever I want with whomever I want, I may need to get on the horn with a dealer assuming that can that include Angelina and Penelope?

Interesting point about not finding folks that want to take a free trip to the Atlantis. We never have much room to invite others, but I have some friends that bug me to go (and I have done some guy trips in the Bonanza) and others that have no interest. It also could be a fear of small planes that some of my friends have.

I think the Matrix is out because of the lack of used G1000 versions and no available partnership opportunities at my airport. The Pilatus is the dream situation, but again i don't have access to a share or partnership in one at the moment and new ones are $4 million AMUs (is that american monetary unit?). I don't fly enough to need a whole one.

I think someone said the Matrix/Malibu cabin is the essentially the same as the Navajo. My read is that the Navajo is much larger inside, and can seat up to 8 or 9 depending on how it is configured. Navajo also has a great safety record especially compared to the vs. the P-46 generally, for whatever reason. Also heard that the P-46 can fall on its tail if the pilot tries to close the door with a full plane, which can make it less convenient. Haven't heard of that issue with the Nav. I guess I need to go sit in some of these planes and maybe fly a couple.

(100 hours since April is a lot of hours. I have about 30 and feel like I have done a lot of flying this summer).

My buddy bought his 2005 PC12 with 1000 hours on it for $2.2 Million. This was about 2 months ago. He moved up from an SR22. He had to do about 70 hours of dual and go to SimCom for insurance. But now he's done and flying everywhere.

He mentioned he would bring in a partner if he could find the right guy. Maybe you're the right guy. I'll give you his contact info over PM if you like. He hangars at LZU.

I'll bet if you had a PC12, you'd fly more.

Happens with planes, boats, vacation homes, doesn't matter.

I used to rent a house in Taos every year in high season and invite anyone who wanted to come for a free week of skiing.

I'd come up but the altitude is hard on me. That's why I only go to Park City in the summer.
I could do maybe three days, could you fly back to Texas and pick me up?
Is there maid service?
Could I borrow your car to drive up mid-week, mine doesn't have good tires?

I used to have a Baja Off Shore boat with twin 502's.

After I asked repeatedly for them to come, they would show up late and empty handed. We would go out for the day, burn 300 gals of premium, drink a case of beer, etc. When we get back to the dock, tired, burned, boat filthy,... Thanks that was fun let me help out. Here's $20, we need to get home and clean up so we'll leave you to it.

Once you get out of college the first thing you forget after freshman history is how to maintain friendships.