25 Dec 2025, 02:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.  Posted: 11 Mar 2025, 23:42 |
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Joined: 11/30/12
Posts: 4950
Post Likes: +5628
Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: Laughable that people don’t realize the Avanti has a better, quieter cabin, more range, better speed (than some) and a real lav…and they still buy a Citation pencil or a 900 nm range Phenom 100 or a noisier, slower and more fuel thirsty King Air. Attachment: IMG_4466.jpeg The Avanti is a gorgeous, fast, roomy, capable aircraft. But if I took every dime I've spent on my KA travelling well over a hundred thousand miles - and all the fuel, and all the tires, and gear overhauls, and the unexpected repairs, and the upgrades, AND the two hot sections - I might be able to buy an Avanti and stare at it on the ramp, as long as I didn't ask it to fly. Not everyone who buys the "lesser" option is foolish.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 00:05 |
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Joined: 01/12/10
Posts: 591
Post Likes: +1082
Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, T-6
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Username Protected wrote: Laughable that people don’t realize the Avanti has a better, quieter cabin, more range, better speed (than some) and a real lav…and they still buy a Citation pencil or a 900 nm range Phenom 100 or a noisier, slower and more fuel thirsty King Air. Attachment: IMG_4466.jpeg The Avanti is a gorgeous, fast, roomy, capable aircraft. But if I took every dime I've spent on my KA travelling well over a hundred thousand miles - and all the fuel, and all the tires, and gear overhauls, and the unexpected repairs, and the upgrades, AND the two hot sections - I might be able to buy an Avanti and stare at it on the ramp, as long as I didn't ask it to fly. Not everyone who buys the "lesser" option is foolish.
The Avanti 1s can be purchased with full GARMIN panels for slightly more than a new Cirrus? Not sure Of your calculations. Didn’t mean the ascribe you to being foolish. I mis spoke…more misinformed as to their real costs.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.un Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 01:22 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20978
Post Likes: +26453
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: The market has spoken Mike, EV sales are through the floor. No one wants them. You keep making stuff up. Do you feel you need to? EV sales are up 28% this year so far in the USA versus 2024. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/03/de ... this-year/Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 07:42 |
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Joined: 01/10/17
Posts: 2445
Post Likes: +1823
Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
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How did it all shake out with the Avanti fleet having parts robbed to put on other airframes a while back? Airplanes coming into the shop getting their parts removed to get the others flying then hopefully another came in to get parts removed to get the others out of the shop. Until there was a hiccup and then nobody knew whose parts were where.
Was it the importer or dealer doing this? I just heard little bits of the story over the years.
Something must have been solved because they are flying.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 08:06 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8769
Post Likes: +11335
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: How did it all shake out with the Avanti fleet having parts robbed to put on other airframes a while back? Airplanes coming into the shop getting their parts removed to get the others flying then hopefully another came in to get parts removed to get the others out of the shop. Until there was a hiccup and then nobody knew whose parts were where.
Was it the importer or dealer doing this? I just heard little bits of the story over the years.
Something must have been solved because they are flying. That was one operator. Avantair, IIRC they had about 50 of them that were grounded by the FAA. It’s fine to swap parts around, but the paper didn’t keep up. It all came to a head back in 2013, I don’t know how it all ended up, or if the effected airplanes were every fully redeemed. I’m sure the Avanti guys here can tell us, I’m curious as well.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 09:59 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 7806
Post Likes: +5157
Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: That was one operator. Avantair, IIRC they had about 50 of them that were grounded by the FAA. I mean, clearly that was unique to the design of the Piaggio, it’s the only startup charter outfit ever offering service below its costs to have issues in the back office and then go belly up, that has never happened before right? 
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-Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 10:38 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8769
Post Likes: +11335
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: That was one operator. Avantair, IIRC they had about 50 of them that were grounded by the FAA. I mean, clearly that was unique to the design of the Piaggio, it’s the only startup charter outfit ever offering service below its costs to have issues in the back office and then go belly up, that has never happened before right?
The truth is that AvantAir came about because Avanti had to sell them the airplanes because they weren't selling to the public. We saw a similar situation recently with the Honda Jet.
Avanti had a lot of challenges, great airplane, but expensive, it sold new for more than a King Air 350i and more than many of the Citations. As you guys have pointed out, it does a lot of things better, but there's a lot more to owning and operating an airplane than it's capabilities.
They didn't have the sales, service and support component in place and they were going up against well established brands.
The lifeline AvantAir gave them became a garrotte when AvantAir collapsed, putting a bunch of used aircraft on the market at once, which really hurt sales of new airplanes. I was actually surprised to see Honda make the same mistake with JetIt.
There's a total of 214 Piggios still in service worldwide, only 92 in the US. It's a great airplane, but a niche airplane.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 10:48 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 7806
Post Likes: +5157
Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: There's a total of 214 Piggios still in service worldwide, only 92 in the US. There are 107 Piaggios on the US registry as of today. It has been growing in the past two years I’ve been paying attention. Started at 97 2 years ago, so up by about 10%.
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-Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 10:56 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8769
Post Likes: +11335
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: There's a total of 214 Piggios still in service worldwide, only 92 in the US. There are 107 Piaggios on the US registry as of today. It has been growing in the past two years I’ve been paying attention. Started at 97 2 years ago, so up by about 10%.
My system should be more accurate than the registry, but having said that I don't trust anyone's data 
And it is likely that we would show the same increase even if the base numbers are lower.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 11:15 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 7806
Post Likes: +5157
Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: My system should be more accurate than the registry, but having said that I don't trust anyone's data I cited the source of my data, and it is well known how that source collects that data. Perfect or not, it beats vague and handwavy… and BTW I get calls from Amstat and have dutifully ignored and blocked them for years. As have most operators I know. So I would not cite their data as any more accurate than the legal record.
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-Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.un Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 11:53 |
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Joined: 01/12/10
Posts: 591
Post Likes: +1082
Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, T-6
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Username Protected wrote: The market has spoken Mike, EV sales are through the floor. No one wants them. You keep making stuff up. Do you feel you need to? EV sales are up 28% this year so far in the USA versus 2024. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/03/de ... this-year/Mike C.
I made a promise about thread drift earlier I’m keeping, if you wish to discuss further do it privately. I have plenty of sources to give you.
Best
Mark
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 11:58 |
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Joined: 01/12/10
Posts: 591
Post Likes: +1082
Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, T-6
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Username Protected wrote: [quote="Chip McClure
/quote]
As you guys have pointed out, it does a lot of things better, but there's a lot more to owning and operating an airplane than its capabilities.
[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Ummm, sorry Chip but thats the ONLY reason to own and operate an airplane.
Were you aware there are 11 Evos on the assembly line right now. 1 just delivered in Missouri? Remind me how many Mustangs are on the assembly line? Niche airplanes don’t have a continuous production of 32 years and counting.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 12:21 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8769
Post Likes: +11335
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: My system should be more accurate than the registry, but having said that I don't trust anyone's data I cited the source of my data, and it is well known how that source collects that data. Perfect or not, it beats vague and handwavy… and BTW I get calls from Amstat and have dutifully ignored and blocked them for years. As have most operators I know. So I would not cite their data as any more accurate than the legal record.
Do you assume that JetNet doesn't have access to the FAA registry?
I would suspect that you are looking at airplanes that are REGISTERED in the United States and I am looking at airplanes that are IN the United States.
"Perfect or not, it beats vague and handwavy" Nothing vague except your false accusations. The fact is, this is my world. I have a lot more access to data than you. Period. You hate that because it puts you at a disadvantage in a discussion... sorry. You can buy the info I have, it's about $30k a year.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 12 Mar 2025, 12:27 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8769
Post Likes: +11335
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Remind me how many Mustangs are on the assembly line? Niche airplanes don’t have a continuous production of 32 years and counting. What does the Mustang have to do with this convo? I don't think this comment will age well.
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