BeechTalk - BT - Maybe New Piper Offering

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Feb 2024, 06:15

Username Protected wrote:

That’s fast compared to mine. I don’t have the torque tables on my phone anymore since I’m in a TBM now, but 1570 seems high at fl250. I’ve been in two other M600s besides mine and they all flew about the same as mine, plus it minus a couple knots. They were all flown by the torque tables though, which usually yielded ITTs in the 725-730 range in cruise.

Since it was -9 that day the max cruise torque by the tables was 1573 and I just wanted to try and see how fast it was on that very cold day.I see you have a 960 and I have a 900 we typically see about 8 below book in the 900,how about your 960.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Feb 2024, 12:06

I was able to locate torque tables for the M600. At -43 and fl250, the recommended book torque is 1388. That’s what is recommended by Pratt, and the torque I would use. You can certainly push your engine as hard as you want. It’s your plane. I see book number in my 960. It’s fadec so it takes the human part out of the engine temp and torque decisions. The engine in the 960 seems to like altitude better than the -42 in the M600. The M600 seemed to perform best in the mid 20s, while the TBM likes 280 and up. Temps make a big difference on the TBM too. In winter I see a steady 325ktas at 300/310, with an anomaly day where I saw 333. Summer it tends to be in the mid to upper teens at upper altitudes. Climb is substantially faster than the M600. The “M700” should address that as it’s a much lighter plane than the TBM. Cruise will predominantly be based on plane cross section. I’d be surprised if it bettered 295ktas.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Feb 2024, 12:37

Username Protected wrote:

I was able to locate torque tables for the M600. At -43 and fl250, the recommended book torque is 1388. That’s what is recommended by Pratt, and the torque I would use. You can certainly push your engine as hard as you want. It’s your plane. I see book number in my 960. It’s fadec so it takes the human part out of the engine temp and torque decisions. The engine in the 960 seems to like altitude better than the -42 in the M600. The M600 seemed to perform best in the mid 20s, while the TBM likes 280 and up. Temps make a big difference on the TBM too. In winter I see a steady 325ktas at 300/310, with an anomaly day where I saw 333. Summer it tends to be in the mid to upper teens at upper altitudes. Climb is substantially faster than the M600. The “M700” should address that as it’s a much lighter plane than the TBM. Cruise will predominantly be based on plane cross section. I’d be surprised if it bettered 295ktas.

The normal cruise table at FL250 and -9 ISA is 1393tq and the Maximum cruise at the same altitude and temperature is 1573tq and in the photo the ITT was only 755 because of the very cold temperature,like I stated I wanted to see the performance for that situation,I use normal cruise with the auto throttle setting it and verify with the app on my phone.The TBM900 that I have is usually 320 KTS,not as fast as yours.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Feb 2024, 12:51

Username Protected wrote:

I was able to locate torque tables for the M600. At -43 and fl250, the recommended book torque is 1388. That’s what is recommended by Pratt, and the torque I would use. You can certainly push your engine as hard as you want. It’s your plane. I see book number in my 960. It’s fadec so it takes the human part out of the engine temp and torque decisions. The engine in the 960 seems to like altitude better than the -42 in the M600. The M600 seemed to perform best in the mid 20s, while the TBM likes 280 and up. Temps make a big difference on the TBM too. In winter I see a steady 325ktas at 300/310, with an anomaly day where I saw 333. Summer it tends to be in the mid to upper teens at upper altitudes. Climb is substantially faster than the M600. The “M700” should address that as it’s a much lighter plane than the TBM. Cruise will predominantly be based on plane cross section. I’d be surprised if it bettered 295ktas.

960 and an XCub!

You know my buddy Mike S.!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Feb 2024, 13:41

Chip, Yes, I know Mike. I bought my 960 from him. I have two XCubs. One I keep in Utah, and one in Florida. The TBM is for getting back and forth.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2024, 00:17

Username Protected wrote:

I was able to locate torque tables for the M600. At -43 and fl250, the recommended book torque is 1388. That’s what is recommended by Pratt, and the torque I would use. You can certainly push your engine as hard as you want. It’s your plane. I see book number in my 960. It’s fadec so it takes the human part out of the engine temp and torque decisions. The engine in the 960 seems to like altitude better than the -42 in the M600. The M600 seemed to perform best in the mid 20s, while the TBM likes 280 and up. Temps make a big difference on the TBM too. In winter I see a steady 325ktas at 300/310, with an anomaly day where I saw 333. Summer it tends to be in the mid to upper teens at upper altitudes. Climb is substantially faster than the M600. The “M700” should address that as it’s a much lighter plane than the TBM. Cruise will predominantly be based on plane cross section. I’d be surprised if it bettered 295ktas.

Jack, what temps do you see in the 960 in normal cruise? Everyone and their mother argues about appropriate temps. Curious where they land on a fresh engine with FADEC

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2024, 01:23

Username Protected wrote:

What's the typical useful load in an M600 and is there a ZFW?

The advertised useful load is 2400 lbs. 4850 ZFW. Options can eat into useful load. Our useful load is 2356 with the weights installed. Not common to fly at GW, since it holds over 7 hours of fuel, but flies really well at GW. At light weights has a better power to weight ratio than an Extra 300 and is quite sporty. Can’t imagine what another 100 HP
Would feel like on a cold day. Here is taking off from Idaho falls one day and through FL18.5 15 miles from the airport!! Wicked climb gradient.

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2024, 03:21

Username Protected wrote:

At light weights has a better power to weight ratio than an Extra 300 and is quite sporty. Can’t imagine what another 100 HP
Would feel like on a cold day. Here is taking off from Idaho falls one day and through FL18.5 15 miles from the airport!! Wicked climb gradient.

Chuck if you haven't been in an Epic, you should give one a whirl.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2024, 11:43

Looking for a ride in one. Kind of waiting for them to catch up with the other light turbines in technology, G3000/Autoland/ESP/blue level button/GWX8000 radar/plane sync etc, before seriously considering one. I am sure that is planned down the road. But the plane sounds amazing.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2024, 12:33

Username Protected wrote:

I was able to locate torque tables for the M600. At -43 and fl250, the recommended book torque is 1388. That’s what is recommended by Pratt, and the torque I would use. You can certainly push your engine as hard as you want. It’s your plane. I see book number in my 960. It’s fadec so it takes the human part out of the engine temp and torque decisions. The engine in the 960 seems to like altitude better than the -42 in the M600. The M600 seemed to perform best in the mid 20s, while the TBM likes 280 and up. Temps make a big difference on the TBM too. In winter I see a steady 325ktas at 300/310, with an anomaly day where I saw 333. Summer it tends to be in the mid to upper teens at upper altitudes. Climb is substantially faster than the M600. The “M700” should address that as it’s a much lighter plane than the TBM. Cruise will predominantly be based on plane cross section. I’d be surprised if it bettered 295ktas.

Jack, what temps do you see in the 960 in normal cruise? Everyone and their mother argues about appropriate temps. Curious where they land on a fresh engine with FADEC