19 Dec 2025, 12:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die  Posted: 14 Oct 2020, 21:45 |
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Joined: 03/17/08
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Location: KMCW
Aircraft: B55 PII,F-1,L-2,OTW,
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60# in the nose... He's already having unstick issues with the nose wheel. He won't get the nose wheel off the runway till 100...
Further, I'm not an engineer, just a farm kid that went to Iowa State. But here's some farmer math. Raising 50# of water 150 degrees is 7500 btus. The specific heat of 50/50 coolant is actually less than 1, but I'll give him 1.0. There are 139000 btus in a gallon of diesel. That .053 gallons of fuel. If the engine rejects 25% of its energy as heat in the cooling system that means he can burn an additional quart of fuel before he gets hot. At 20 gph on T/O that's about 90 seconds more time. That means instead of a take-off and turn back, now he can fly the pattern. If he can get the nose wheel off the ground...
As I said a long time ago, this is like watching a Greek Tragedy.
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Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
MCW
Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 14 Oct 2020, 21:49 |
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Joined: 02/14/11
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Company: Air Mass Aviation
Location: Seneca, SC (CEU)
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Username Protected wrote:
As I said a long time ago, this is like watching a Greek Tragedy.
 Perhaps rename the Raptor —- The Odyssey
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Remember, no matter where you go....there you are.
Scott Massios CFI/CFII
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 14 Oct 2020, 22:35 |
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Joined: 12/28/17
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Username Protected wrote: I had to go back and look. He has a Garrett 2867 into 2871. He had calculated 6 psi boost out of the small one and 21 psi out of the big one. Edit: Oh he took an online webinar on tuning, so he’s good.  He must think then he's making 27lbs of boost then by his math.  The only real reason to compound turbo a small engine is to use a small turbo to spool the big turbo to reduce turbo lag. His ground roll is so long I don't think turbo lag is anything to worry about. He will make more power with 2 small turbos one on each side.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 14 Oct 2020, 22:40 |
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Joined: 08/10/14
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Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
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He put a lot of hours on the engine in the test stand under load but I think we was using a 55 gal drum of water or something to not recycle the coolant. Can't remember exactly... Username Protected wrote: I don’t get why you would need a small turbo for aircraft. The only benefit of the small turbo over the larger ones is response. Why do you need throttle response in a plane? Turbo props have slow throttle response and they seem to work fine.
I will admit I am a supercharger guy not a turbo guy. I don’t see any reason to have two inline. I get twin turbos, one for each side, but two on one exhaust seems to be a mess.
As Tony noted the compound turbo arrangement was intended to provide enough boost at FL250 to make full power or something around there. The RED A03 diesel engine, planned for the Otto Celera 500L uses a twin stage turbo design, but it has a ceiling of FL500. Quote: Increased Take-Off Performance
Derivative of A03-003
Designed for Very High Altitude Application
Provides Full Take-Off power up to 25.000ft
Operational Altitude up to 50.000ft
Twin Stage Turbocharger Induction System
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 14 Oct 2020, 22:46 |
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Username Protected wrote:
As I said a long time ago, this is like watching a Greek Tragedy.
Perhaps rename the Raptor —- The Odyssey
Icarus
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 14 Oct 2020, 22:49 |
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Joined: 02/14/11
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Company: Air Mass Aviation
Location: Seneca, SC (CEU)
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Username Protected wrote:
Icarus
Icarus would imply that the plane climbed high enough to get warmed up by the sun 
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Remember, no matter where you go....there you are.
Scott Massios CFI/CFII
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 14 Oct 2020, 23:24 |
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Joined: 03/15/16
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Username Protected wrote: I had to go back and look. He has a Garrett 2867 into 2871. He had calculated 6 psi boost out of the small one and 21 psi out of the big one. Edit: Oh he took an online webinar on tuning, so he’s good. He must think then he's making 27lbs of boost then by his math. The only real reason to compound turbo a small engine is to use a small turbo to spool the big turbo to reduce turbo lag. His ground roll is so long I don't think turbo lag is anything to worry about. He will make more power with 2 small turbos one on each side.
Not really, look at this example from Garrett. Look at the corrected airflow by just going from sea level to 15,000 ft. There might not be a single turbo match that works well for the 3.0 L TDI at low and high attitudes. You can run a compound turbo and get all around performance.
https://www.garrettmotion.com/news/news ... r-density/
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 14 Oct 2020, 23:49 |
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Joined: 08/05/16
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah we have a whole department of people doing FEA and every time a model is run they go through it and based on experience say this area is real and that one we'll disregard and these others are suspicious but need to be re-meshed in a different way to better understand it.
Anyone who runs a complex model once and thinks they've learned something useful, is either really, really experienced at creating the mesh and boundaries, or is in way over their head. What does it mean to say an area is real or can be disregarded? As a layman, I would think the only unknowns would result from the limitations in resolution of the airflow and model? If someone who really understood CFD modeled this airplane and simulated it would they be able to figure out how fast it should go given a certain power output, or is that subjective?
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 15 Oct 2020, 02:13 |
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Joined: 11/03/08
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Right Tony, you need a VGT for this kind of change in altitude. Very feasible to do it right. Not feasible to do it right without the right staff, modelling tools, test equipment, and funding.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 15 Oct 2020, 09:01 |
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Username Protected wrote: Icarus It'll never get that high... Rocinante
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 15 Oct 2020, 09:26 |
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Username Protected wrote: Icarus It'll never get that high... Rocinante
But it may get hot enough...
I think Raptor is the reverse Rocinante. Noble Steed reduced to chicken wire and steel angles.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 15 Oct 2020, 17:45 |
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah we have a whole department of people doing FEA and every time a model is run ... If someone who really understood CFD modeled this airplane and simulated it would they be able to figure out how fast it should go given a certain power output, or is that subjective?
CFD is not required to determine the probable speed(s) vs HP. The rules of thumb that have existed for decades can reasonably predict those performance curves. Peter believes that the rules of physics do not apply to his work. Several have attempted to politely point out his mistakes, but he doubles down and trundles on.
Modeling and computer simulations whether FEA, CFD, computational chemistry (etc) are not as deterministic as you apparently expect. Engineering assumptions and mesh’ing changes can both have unanticipated and out-sized effects ... and the (cough) answers may be conflicting/confounding. Resolving such matters requires considerable experience and insight. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
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