BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 07:34

Username Protected wrote:

Count your blessings, JGG. My 180 went straight from Cessna in Wichita to the biggest Cessna dealer in Mexico. XB-ZAB was rode hard and put up wet for many years, serving the cattle, mining, and drug (yes, weed, when it was profitable) markets until I found it nearly 35 years ago. You can just imagine the sad condition it was in when I bought it. Broken and horribly welded exhaust manifolds made me fly with the windows open. I was so busy for the first year attending my day job and the ranches on the weekends, that I didn't have the luxury of an airspeed indicator. The mountain "airstrips" are really cowpaths, so the flying and landings were on the "A" game. One of the struts turned out to be from a Cessna 170 (!!!). The upholstery was surely concocted from the same tacky velour used for Elvis paintings found around the brothels in Juarez. Rigging was so bad that I needed a massage after flying. I finally got sick of the corruption and bureaucracy, brought the plane to its ancestral home, gave it a proper N number, and taught it to speak proper English and behave accordingly. Nonetheless, it still packs heat in a special secret compartment.
Through the years, I have slowly brought the airplane to a much better condition, and
eventually sent it to the magicians at Beegles Air Service, where, under the orchestration of Scott Mauch, it was made practically new. We now much enjoy it as the family pet, and it is, beyond any doubt, the keeper. I once quipped at a New Year's 180-185 bacchanal at Lajitas, Texas, that I was going to sell the plane in favor of a 185. My young bride refocused my fogged brain by stating that if the 180 went, she would go with it. One great friend and 180 driver came up and said he would take the airplane and the girl; then he would sell the plane back to me in a year at what he thought it was worth. (He has a label on his 180's windshield that says: "Flying a 180 is not a mater of life and death... It's more important than that").
So please, my good friend, do not become discouraged by these temporary discomforts in putting your airplane right. They will be surmounted, and I trust that you will enjoy your beautiful 180 for many years to come. Everytime you yell "Clear", you will have a sense of pride reserved for Skywagon folk, and it will have been well worth the effort.
Best regards,

Tom

Good story Tom...but how did he like the girl after a year? :lol:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 08:37

Painful now, this too will pass. And it will make a great story one day as you sit with your feet on a cooler at an aviation get-together.

And best of all, your airplane has a real handle, one that it earned!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 08:43

I just went through a similar (FWF not airframe) exercise unexpectedly. The end result is very satisfying. Knowing what you have makes every flight more enjoyable.

Nice work gentlemen. Bringing one back adds a little more life to GA.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 09:32

I need to make one thing clear: I'm not the least bit upset, disappointed, or worried. I wanted a good airplane for my "retirement" airplane and Del is going to get it for me. I don't mean to sound cavalier about the cost and am not. I've getting value and peace of mind with every dollar spent.

I have a parallel 'project" going with the 195 as well. Thankfully, the 195 has no structural issues like the 180, and, at this point, only lacks hanging on a new engine (which is being built as we speak) and interior.

I am truly excited to see the finished product of both and have them sitting in my hangar. I'm flying over to Del's next week to go over the final details. I will post pictures as the final product comes together.

Jg

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 10:02

It should be pretty obvious that there is a wide chasm between mechanics regarding the thoroughness of annual inspections.

Everybody should want what Del does. Whether you decide to fix the squawks that are not an airworthiness issue is up to you....... just hope that you buy your next plane from someone like John.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 12:46

Glad to see your both working together to get the airplane back into shape. It will be good for a very long time after that. It got this far with little care. With some luck and good mx from here on out it should be a good one.

I hate when I hear an airplane owner say “I’m never going back to that shop, they charged me $6000 for an annual” I really doubt that is the case but usually I ask what was done. “Oh I needed tires, propeller was leaking and needed resealing, one mag didn’t work, Bladder was leaking etc but that’s just too much for an annual it was flying just fine”

I think part of it stems from some shops or IA’s reluctance to bring the owner into the inspection. I welcome the owner to come in while the airplane is apart. It’s much easier to just walk them around and point at what needs to be done.

A. usually I can get some money up front to cover the parts if they are expensive
B. They understand their systems and what is behind the inspection covers better. Better they understand to give me an educated guess if something breaks on the road.
C. They get a better look at the real condition of their airplane not just shiny paint and new interior. Corrosion areas to watch, need to clean the belly between inspections.
D. We can plan a little based on their expected usage what items are critical now and what items to plan for down the road or even between inspections to space some of the cost out if it’s possible.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 13:09

Username Protected wrote:

Count your blessings, JGG. My 180 went straight from Cessna in Wichita to the biggest Cessna dealer in Mexico. XB-ZAB was rode hard and put up wet for many years, serving the cattle, mining, and drug (yes, weed, when it was profitable) markets until I found it nearly 35 years ago. You can just imagine the sad condition it was in when I bought it. Broken and horribly welded exhaust manifolds made me fly with the windows open. I was so busy for the first year attending my day job and the ranches on the weekends, that I didn't have the luxury of an airspeed indicator. The mountain "airstrips" are really cowpaths, so the flying and landings were on the "A" game. One of the struts turned out to be from a Cessna 170 (!!!). The upholstery was surely concocted from the same tacky velour used for Elvis paintings found around the brothels in Juarez. Rigging was so bad that I needed a massage after flying. I finally got sick of the corruption and bureaucracy, brought the plane to its ancestral home, gave it a proper N number, and taught it to speak proper English and behave accordingly. Nonetheless, it still packs heat in a special secret compartment.
Through the years, I have slowly brought the airplane to a much better condition, and
eventually sent it to the magicians at Beegles Air Service, where, under the orchestration of Scott Mauch, it was made practically new. We now much enjoy it as the family pet, and it is, beyond any doubt, the keeper. I once quipped at a New Year's 180-185 bacchanal at Lajitas, Texas, that I was going to sell the plane in favor of a 185. My young bride refocused my fogged brain by stating that if the 180 went, she would go with it. One great friend and 180 driver came up and said he would take the airplane and the girl; then he would sell the plane back to me in a year at what he thought it was worth. (He has a label on his 180's windshield that says: "Flying a 180 is not a mater of life and death... It's more important than that").
So please, my good friend, do not become discouraged by these temporary discomforts in putting your airplane right. They will be surmounted, and I trust that you will enjoy your beautiful 180 for many years to come. Everytime you yell "Clear", you will have a sense of pride reserved for Skywagon folk, and it will have been well worth the effort.
Best regards,

Tom

Good story Tom...but how did he like the girl after a year? :lol:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 13:19

Username Protected wrote:

Glad to see your both working together to get the airplane back into shape. It will be good for a very long time after that. It got this far with little care. With some luck and good mx from here on out it should be a good one.

I hate when I hear an airplane owner say “I’m never going back to that shop, they charged me $6000 for an annual” I really doubt that is the case but usually I ask what was done. “Oh I needed tires, propeller was leaking and needed resealing, one mag didn’t work, Bladder was leaking etc but that’s just too much for an annual it was flying just fine”

I think part of it stems from some shops or IA’s reluctance to bring the owner into the inspection. I welcome the owner to come in while the airplane is apart. It’s much easier to just walk them around and point at what needs to be done.

A. usually I can get some money up front to cover the parts if they are expensive
B. They understand their systems and what is behind the inspection covers better. Better they understand to give me an educated guess if something breaks on the road.
C. They get a better look at the real condition of their airplane not just shiny paint and new interior. Corrosion areas to watch, need to clean the belly between inspections.
D. We can plan a little based on their expected usage what items are critical now and what items to plan for down the road or even between inspections to space some of the cost out if it’s possible.

Exactly how the relationship should work! Hope Jg don't mind me posting this. Even with our modern methods of communication, it doesn't compare to being at the aircraft, one on one discussion, and seeing first hand the discrepancies that are difficult to verbally explain.

Attachment:

IMG_6402.PNG

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Apr 2019, 13:20

Username Protected wrote:

Good story Tom...but how did he like the girl after a year? :lol:

I surmise by your comment that you are not married. Even the likes of J Lo can get to be old hat after a year, but a 180 never ceases to be exciting. YMMV.
I kept both.

TN

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Apr 2019, 09:06

Good story Tom...but how did he like the girl after a year? :lol:

[/quote]
I surmise by your comment that you are not married. Even the likes of J Lo can get to be old hat after a year, but a 180 never ceases to be exciting. YMMV.
I kept both.

TN[/quote]

Tom,

Thought about your comment as to the 180 and J Lo. I was walking to the baseball stadium at Ole Miss a couple of weekends back behind this lady. I thought it worth of a picture. Then, I realized

, "hell that's my wife!". After 45 years, she still excites me. :thumbup:

A 180 and that lady. Hell of a combination. :peace:

Jg

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Apr 2019, 11:02

JGG:
In the life of every man, there is only one woman with whom he can reach the perfect union... and in the life of every woman there is only one man with whom she can feel complete. What are the chances? One in one-thousand? One in one million? One in ten million? Finding each other is the destiny of a few, a very few. All others are constrained to live in a state of dissatisfaction; of perpetual nostalgia. All other relationships are adjustments of personal illusion, epidermal attractions that are by nature transitory, physical or character affinities, social contracts, or, lamentably, monetary temptations.
Given the above, I can only reflect on our extraordinarily good fortune.
Best regards,

Tom

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Apr 2019, 16:35

JG,

Thanks for confirming that Del is a top-notch guy and a top-notch mechanic.

If we had more mechanics like him, and more owners like you, the GA fleet would be in much better shape.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 May 2019, 11:19

I once had a $24,000 "annual" inspection on a complex turbo-normalized airplane. I was extremely happy with the shop and their work.

In the course of the inspection, the IA found a cracked spar in the tail, and (with my approval) repaired it. And since we had to disassemble the entire tail, he applied another "fix" (again at my request) to prevent the aileron hinges from cracking.

He installed an EI CGR-30P engine monitor (~$5K + $3K labor), tracked down the IFR certification for the G430W that was installed (and still placarded "VFR Only", though the previous owner paid for an IFR installation). All the flight controls were re-rigged.

This airplane had the dual-mag setup, and when the annual was signed off 10 hours ago (4 months), the mags were supposedly overhauled. He said that visual inspection from the outside made him doubt that the mags had been removed 10 hours ago, so he pulled them just to check (again with my approval). The main drive gear, which drives both mags, was extremely worn. It was so bad that he could literally move either mag drive gear independently of the main one, so timing the mags would have been A) impossible, and B) a waste of time, since they could easily slip a tooth (or 20). So he had the dual mag sent off to a reputable shop for rebuild.

He swung the gear, and discovered the nose gear bushings were shot, and replaced those. The nose gear strut o-rings were leaking and had to be replaced. One of the hydraulic hoses on the left main gear was worn from contact with the gear leg and had to be replaced, then repositioned to disallow the contact.

At every step of the way, he called me to tell me what was found, what he recommended, and what other options I had. By this time, I trusted him pretty thoroughly, and took his advice on pretty much all of it. And in the end, he asked me "Did you realize the lower cowling is painted a different color than the rest of the plane? I can fix that for you, and I'll only charge you for the paint. I just can't stand mis-matched paint on an airplane!" So I took him up on that as well.

So, yeah, I had a $24,000 "annual inspection", and the airplane that emerged from their shop was one I could have confidence in, knowing that it had been thoroughly gone over by an expert in the type.

Tail AD AMOC completed: $7000
Engine monitor: $8,000
Dual-mag failure averted: $1500
Peace of mind from knowing it was all done right: PRICELESS

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 May 2019, 12:41

Username Protected wrote:

I once had a $24,000 "annual" inspection on a complex turbo-normalized airplane. I was extremely happy with the shop and their work.

In the course of the inspection, the IA found a cracked spar in the tail, and (with my approval) repaired it. And since we had to disassemble the entire tail, he applied another "fix" (again at my request) to prevent the aileron hinges from cracking.

He installed an EI CGR-30P engine monitor (~$5K + $3K labor), tracked down the IFR certification for the G430W that was installed (and still placarded "VFR Only", though the previous owner paid for an IFR installation). All the flight controls were re-rigged.

This airplane had the dual-mag setup, and when the annual was signed off 10 hours ago (4 months), the mags were supposedly overhauled. He said that visual inspection from the outside made him doubt that the mags had been removed 10 hours ago, so he pulled them just to check (again with my approval). The main drive gear, which drives both mags, was extremely worn. It was so bad that he could literally move either mag drive gear independently of the main one, so timing the mags would have been A) impossible, and B) a waste of time, since they could easily slip a tooth (or 20). So he had the dual mag sent off to a reputable shop for rebuild.

He swung the gear, and discovered the nose gear bushings were shot, and replaced those. The nose gear strut o-rings were leaking and had to be replaced. One of the hydraulic hoses on the left main gear was worn from contact with the gear leg and had to be replaced, then repositioned to disallow the contact.

At every step of the way, he called me to tell me what was found, what he recommended, and what other options I had. By this time, I trusted him pretty thoroughly, and took his advice on pretty much all of it. And in the end, he asked me "Did you realize the lower cowling is painted a different color than the rest of the plane? I can fix that for you, and I'll only charge you for the paint. I just can't stand mis-matched paint on an airplane!" So I took him up on that as well.

So, yeah, I had a $24,000 "annual inspection", and the airplane that emerged from their shop was one I could have confidence in, knowing that it had been thoroughly gone over by an expert in the type.

Tail AD AMOC completed: $7000
Engine monitor: $8,000
Dual-mag failure averted: $1500
Peace of mind from knowing it was all done right: PRICELESS

Sounds like a good process with good communications. In fairness you had a $16k annual and added an $8k engine monitor. Right?