BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 13:14

Username Protected wrote:

I wish they'd have done that instead of the toy jet with anemic performance.

Why? You'd buy one? You (and I) aren't their target market.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 13:19

Username Protected wrote:

I wish they'd have done that instead of the toy jet with anemic performance.

Why? You'd buy one? You (and I) aren't their target market.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 13:52

Username Protected wrote:

...I think the Eclipse is a badass looking plane. Its a tad bit too small and the avionics sucked. Stretch and widen and put in G3000 and up fit a couple of larger Williams fans and you're 90% on your way to a winner. Why am I wrong? You'll say the market has spoken, I know. The market can only speak about what's available. I'm saying the 5 or 6 manufactures for GA have brought the wrong products to market.

The traditional jet market is of a finite size. Cirrus set out to expand that market to a new buyer. A SEJ buyer. They had no interest in competing with the establishment. The “expanded” Garminized Eclipse that you describe is exactly what the Mustang is. Longer, wider, Garmin, with more powerful engines. Yet, the existing market would only hold 500 of them. Cirrus needed a different market. Thus, they built a different airplane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 13:52

Username Protected wrote:

Because maybe a $2M new jet will be a $1M used jet in a few years and then I will get one.

or a premier ..then a bird strike

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 14:02

Nearly 450 pages of redundant points and counterpoints. Ground Hog day on steroids.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 14:12

Username Protected wrote:

I am not dancing around anything. I am bitching that Cirrus didn't take the opportunity to introduce a new twin engine jet design at a lower cost than a single. I cant name one because there isn't one and I am saying there should be. I am speculating that Cirrus could have invested the R&D and certification and additional engineering costs of the SF50, combined their existing and successful manufacturing infrastructure and produced a better VLJ than what currently exists that would have cost the same or less and outperformed the SF50. I wish they'd have done that instead of the toy jet with anemic performance.

Or everyone could just go buy an M2, Phenom 100 or Honda Jrt

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 14:23

Username Protected wrote:

Nearly 450 pages of redundant points and counterpoints. Ground Hog day on steroids.

Yup. And there are still folks here who believe a twin engine pressurized jet can be brought to market for $2mm.

Reminds me of the old RR500 days when everyone thought a turbine bonanza could be brought to market for $300k.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 14:37

Why hasn't Cirrus come on here and defended themselves?

Answer: They know they cannot convert the "unwashed" and don't care.

That crowd is never going to buy a Cirrus Jet, no matter pricing or current features.

I actually think that they will never buy any other version either.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 15:02

Agreed,

Cirrus came out with the SF50 for the SR22 guys to move from.

Anybody else that tasted jet fuel wants a real jet with higher performance.

Like others have said once these SF50 pilots have tasted jet fuel they will want to move to a real jet so here comes the market for the M2, CJ2, HJ, P300 etc...
This clown jet will actually be a blessing for the jet market.

Username Protected wrote:

...I think the Eclipse is a badass looking plane. Its a tad bit too small and the avionics sucked. Stretch and widen and put in G3000 and up fit a couple of larger Williams fans and you're 90% on your way to a winner. Why am I wrong? You'll say the market has spoken, I know. The market can only speak about what's available. I'm saying the 5 or 6 manufactures for GA have brought the wrong products to market.

The traditional jet market is of a finite size. Cirrus set out to expand that market to a new buyer. A SEJ buyer. They had no interest in competing with the establishment. The “expanded” Garminized Eclipse that you describe is exactly what the Mustang is. Longer, wider, Garmin, with more powerful engines. Yet, the existing market would only hold 500 of them. Cirrus needed a different market. Thus, they built a different airplane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 15:17

I'm looking forward to what Cirrus is going to do for the customers to grow into after the SF50. In it's current form a fair amount will want more capability and Cirrus will risk migration if they don't have something.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 15:35

In a sense, that's what I wanted from Beech. I had a TN A-36, then a P-Baron, then a King Air, but the Beech jet move up for SP wasn't there. I love the build of Beech craft and wanted to stay with that line when possible. Cessna offered many more jet options including SP. I may have gone to a SETP instead of the King Air if that would have been a Beech option. And, I needed financially viable used aircraft.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 15:41

90% of the weather looms from the surface to the mid/upper 20s. Isn’t this the arena that we’re trying to avoid? What is the best economical answer?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 15:42

Username Protected wrote:

Like others have said once these SF50 pilots have tasted jet fuel they will want to move to a real jet so here comes the market for the M2, CJ2, HJ, P300 etc...
This clown jet will actually be a blessing for the jet market.

I'm always shopping CJ3, CJ4 and Phenom 300. 99% of the time the hours on the airframe and the number of landings are almost identical. Which means 99% of jets are flying 1 hour flights.

IMO, Cirrus built that jet that fits 99% of all flights. If you need more capability, bigger jets are there. Cirrus doesn't need to build a bigger jet because most flights are 1 hour or less.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 15:49

Have we made it to 450 pages yet? I’d like to thank Sean Mollet for starting all of this. Not sure what I’d do when I’m not flying or working.

Carry on.

Peace,
Don

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2018, 16:11

Username Protected wrote:

Have we made it to 450 pages yet? I’d like to thank Sean Mollet for starting all of this. Not sure what I’d do when I’m not flying or working.

Carry on.

Peace,
Don

Not yet.., but close!

Cirrus SF50