BeechTalk - BT - Off the market (2008 Pilatus PC12NG)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 12:18

Username Protected wrote:

Never understood why in aviation everyone's is obsessed with adding multi-colored stripes. Clutters planes up and make them look truncated or foreshortened and messes with the lines. Big clean neutral colors, and then an accent on the tail/engines of another color looks so much better, in my opinion. Less is more - let the hull shape speak for itself. Like this:

I agree Adam but the planes you posted are a pretty shape. I’m not sure it translates well to PC12

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 12:30

Username Protected wrote:

My experience after 30+ years in product management.Everyone is a designer. Not!
Get with the people who do this for a living, a la Scheme Designers, and make your mistakes on a monitor.
This is as much science as it is art. The ratio of length to height, tail design, etc, all critical in designing just the right scheme. Designs don’t scale well. They have to be designed for that particular profile. What looks good on a Bo or a TBM or a BJB won’t look good on a PC12 and vice versa.

Luc, you made me laugh. I cringe when I find myself handing carefully designed and tested functional mockups to software engineers who then go a build something different because they think it is better than what the trained UX/UI designers created. It would be funny if it wasn’t a constant battle and wasted effort!

To bring the thread back on course, Adam I like the schemes you posted and have saved them to my inspiration file! One day I hope to have a problem like this too ...
:lol:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 12:35

Username Protected wrote:

Never understood why in aviation everyone's is obsessed with adding multi-colored stripes. Clutters planes up and make them look truncated or foreshortened and messes with the lines. Big clean neutral colors, and then an accent on the tail/engines of another color looks so much better, in my opinion. Less is more - let the hull shape speak for itself. Like this:

I agree Adam but the planes you posted are a pretty shape. I’m not sure it translates well to PC12

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 14:11

I know that this may be heresy suggesting this for a Pilatus... but....

the Beech demo paint scheme, blue, white, grey, is very sharp. Check out how it looks on the King Airs. May even look good on a Pilatus..... :hide:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 14:22

Point of information:

Turbine engines will burn avgas. If you come in 3/4 full and need to put 100 gallons or something in to make in nonstop from Angwin ... that's doable. If you engine allows 100 hours of avgas per TBO, that's thousands and thousands of gallons.

Jason - have you thought about helicopter charters? I'm serious. Land at KBIG and hop the jetranger to your ski lodge in 5 min while somebody delivers luggage and suburban an hour later? Might even beat the PC12 landed at the closer short strip.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 14:44

Username Protected wrote:

Jason - have you thought about helicopter charters? I'm serious. Land at KBIG and hop the jetranger to your ski lodge in 5 min while somebody delivers luggage and suburban an hour later? Might even beat the PC12 landed at the closer short strip.

Would be cool but I know of no place I've ever rented with enough land around it to land a helicopter. My last trip to Napa I stayed at Las Alcobas resort. They're not going to let you land a helicopter there. Plus it's one more thing I need to manage and be disappointed about when the cost is a 10 and the experience is a 1.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 15:01

Username Protected wrote:

My experience after 30+ years in product management.Everyone is a designer. Not!
Get with the people who do this for a living, a la Scheme Designers, and make your mistakes on a monitor.
This is as much science as it is art. The ratio of length to height, tail design, etc, all critical in designing just the right scheme. Designs don’t scale well. They have to be designed for that particular profile. What looks good on a Bo or a TBM or a BJB won’t look good on a PC12 and vice versa.

Luc, you made me laugh. I cringe when I find myself handing carefully designed and tested functional mockups to software engineers who then go a build something different because they think it is better than what the trained UX/UI designers created. It would be funny if it wasn’t a constant battle and wasted effort!

To bring the thread back on course, Adam I like the schemes you posted and have saved them to my inspiration file! One day I hope to have a problem like this too ...
:lol:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 15:22

Username Protected wrote:

I'm married to the Minister of Art and Design. Funny thing is that she can also handle tools. Anyway, I've long given up picking out paint schemes, I used to drive dark blue vehicles, the only one I have now is an old Triumph Spitfire I'm restoring (but honey, it's the original color!). She picked out the colors of the previous two restorations and all of our newer vehicles; we buy leather in everything. Since we've been married I've never painted a room with a color I would have thought I would like, and I've always liked the colors we end up with. The key to using a Scheme Designer is to listen to them, and not overrule them, and especially avoid tweaking their work due to unintended consequences.

Warmly,
Dave

Please get your wife in here to make sure I'm not making a mistake.

I know how you feel. You think you'll hate it then you do it and you love it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 15:25

A long, straight horizontal line makes the Pilatus look boxy to me. The swoops often seem out of place, but there are a couple that caught my eye. I can see how choosing a paint scheme could be both fun and frustrating.

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 15:27

Username Protected wrote:

A long, straight horizontal line makes the Pilatus look boxy to me. The swoops often seem out of place, but there are a couple that caught my eye. I can see how choosing a paint scheme could be both fun and frustrating.

I do like the bottom one you posted but I think PC12 needs to be light on top and dark on bottom because of the boots. The boots are black. I don't like designs that act like they aren't there. I want a really dark wing and wing tip to compliment the boots or even somewhat hide them. A light colored wing means the boots are right there in your face.

You see in your top photo how the boot meets the wing root and the white wing all in the same place and makes a square shape of three different colors. That top photo pain job does a good job of bringing the boot into the fuselage but I still don't like how nothing matches up well. It's the same effect at the end of the wing where the boot, wing tip and white wing meet. I stare at it while I fly and don't like it. I think it should flow better.

BTW... in the bottom design I think the Eagle logo makes it work. Without it it would look like something needs to be there.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 15:32

If I had to make my living doing artistic design work I would have starved to death many decades ago.

My wife does all of the color picking and remodeling design work. When she tells me what she wants to do, I without fail, don't agree but go with her plans. I always like the results.

I am a very lucky man.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 15:43

True, I'm not a buyer for this class plane, but to me the appearance is a second or third order effect. Like Forrest Gump or somebody said, "beauty is as beauty does".

Or something like that.

I'm probably missing some critical point, like it only matters if you can actually get one of these.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 16:00

Username Protected wrote:

On PC12 yes I agree. I want a color that hides the boots as opposed to pretending like they aren't there.

Chronos Aviation has a cool look. It has boots???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad7z8fNOieM

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 16:14

Yeah I think all one color is a bad call

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 16:42

I think your plane is worth what it's worth, minus the HSI and wing demate costs, which a buyer will expect done or deducted from the price. The ROI on paint, interior, etc will be close to zero... so you should only do those if you plan to keep for awhile. Also note that the plane will likely start depreciating more now at the 10 year old mark because many financing companies draw the line at 10 years. At 15 years the curve will get steeper again.

Off the market (2008 Pilatus PC12NG) - considering options..