Ditto on that. Yet the Citation pilots on their board tend to differ on their opinion.

Ditto on that. Yet the Citation pilots on their board tend to differ on their opinion.

On JPOOL9 out of KDAL, a PC12 is within glide range of an airport at 3000ft all the way down to Midway.
From normal cruise speed at 3000ft, a PC12 glides around 10 miles.

Ditto on that. Yet the Citation pilots on their board tend to differ on their opinion.

I wonder which is faster at max altitude on a hot day? When I was looking at Premiers, I was surprised how slow they got at 410 when loaded up and it was warm. The Honda Jet took a big hit in those conditions as well.


The book may have performance numbers for warm days at FL410 but in reality a hot day at that altitude is ISA+2. I once saw ISA+6. You can plan, as a minimum, 435 knots at level off for the Premier at max weight.

As to Dallas keeping jets low (and turbo props), I had a friend with a TBM at Redbird south of Dallas. When he came in from the north, they would bring him down to 3 to 4,000 well north near where the B started all the way down on the arrival. At Operation Rain Check he asked about it and they explained how all the jet arrivals came in and how they had to keep him under them.
Usually, coming into Fort Worth from the north in the Citation II and V, they would bring us down to 4 or 5,000 30 miles north. Really put us in the bumps and burned the fuel down there.

Coming into Atlanta on the arrival, all planes are at 3K' for waaaay too long before turning to final. The speed limit below Class B is 200 anyways. They have us lined up when it's IFR.

VFR I'm at 5500' in the same airspace.

Depends on the height of the tropopause. Jetstream is high right now.

This is winds today.



Even today you have 4kts less headwind but more important ISA is -7 to -9 less which will give you greater speed up to MMO. So you have 3 things that will improve range going from FL410 to FL450 even today - Higher TAs with less fuel burn, lower headwind, and lower ISA giving more engine power. It adds up to be significant.

Connecticut to Ft. Lauderdale isn't "west bound in winter".

Right now headwinds West bound ATL to ASE are -67@FL450 and -59@FL260 and -36@16,500'

I'd do the whole thing at 16,500' VFR in 5 hours.. CJ3 could do it at FL400 in 3:35 non stop.

Depends on the height of the tropopause. Jetstream is high right now.

This is winds today.



Even today you have 4kts less headwind but more important ISA is -7 to -9 less which will give you greater speed up to MMO. So you have 3 things that will improve range going from FL410 to FL450 even today - Higher TAs with less fuel burn, lower headwind, and lower ISA giving more engine power. It adds up to be significant.

What’s your fuel burn and TAS at 16.5?

I have yet to find a day with big wind where it was significantly lighter at 16 to warrant flying there vs the 20s. I take a pretty good fuel hit for being there. Speed is virtually unchanged from 280. I know they exist, I just always see 100kts at 28 and 80kts at 16.5

What’s your fuel burn and TAS at 16.5?

I have yet to find a day with big wind where it was significantly lighter at 16 to warrant flying there vs the 20s. I take a pretty good fuel hit for being there. Speed is virtually unchanged from 280. I know they exist, I just always see 100kts at 28 and 80kts at 16.5

An M600 won't do faster than 262 at FL260? What's the limiting factor?

A reason to get a 400knot jet is to literally never fly piston engine ground speeds again. The fuels burns of the turbine seem really high when you are only going to 190kts over the ground. I don't care if it is only saving a few minutes, I feel much better about the costs involved the higher the groundspeed number.

So which jet won?

All I really got was the pt6 has 300,000 hours MTBF. Okay great.
A typical SETP owner will for sure do 300 flights. So then he has a one in a thousand chance of an engine failure??? I'll take the M2. But the pc12 is nigh on impossible to beat for overall general use. As long as it keeps the blades turning.