BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 10:51

Username Protected wrote:

What airplane, what city pair and how many in the back ? IMC or VMC on departure ?

Just curious.

Brad

Falcon 20
VMC on departure and the whole way
5 guys in back plus bags

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 10:55

Quote:

We landed with just over 500 lbs

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 11:04

Username Protected wrote:

What airplane, what city pair and how many in the back ? IMC or VMC on departure ?

Just curious.

Brad

Falcon 20
VMC on departure and the whole way
5 guys in back plus bags

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 11:08

Username Protected wrote:

Long trip ? I know little about the 20 but am just curious as to the distance rqd. VMC doesn't "require" a climb gradient (depending on airport it may not be smart), IMC does if 135 but this sounds like 91.

Also, depending on if they use APG then there may be alternate DP's that can be used in OEI but may not be able to be filed.

Interesting scenario, I would have thought a 20 would have done this in all but edge cases.

1000NM trip. VMC. 8000' altitude but 13K' runway. Plenty of flat space to maneuver. Not like leaving Aspen. High altitude airport but the mountains/rising terrain were far far off. Part 91 but 2 "pro pilots" up front.

Yes, this flight has me wanting to keep my Pilatus. We could've flown Commercial faster.... much faster.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 11:11

Username Protected wrote:

Long trip ? I know little about the 20 but am just curious as to the distance rqd. VMC doesn't "require" a climb gradient (depending on airport it may not be smart), IMC does if 135 but this sounds like 91.

Also, depending on if they use APG then there may be alternate DP's that can be used in OEI but may not be able to be filed.

Interesting scenario, I would have thought a 20 would have done this in all but edge cases.

1000NM trip. VMC. 8000' altitude but 13K' runway. Plenty of flat space to maneuver. Not like leaving Aspen. High altitude airport but the mountains/rising terrain were far far off. Part 91 but 2 "pro pilots" up front.

Yes, this flight has me wanting to keep my Pilatus. We could've flown Commercial faster.... much faster.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 11:16

Username Protected wrote:

Interesting, thanks for clarifying. I will ask around as this one has me stumped based on the description.

I really think the pilots were being overly cautious? I would've filled up and gone but I don't know much about the Falcon 20. Perhaps there was a true concern? That's why I'm asking here.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 11:49

Username Protected wrote:

Interesting, thanks for clarifying. I will ask around as this one has me stumped based on the description.

I really think the pilots were being overly cautious? I would've filled up and gone but I don't know much about the Falcon 20. Perhaps there was a true concern? That's why I'm asking here.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 12:46

The route/city pairs are important. Just 1000 nm can be easy, or a real fuel eater based on winds.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 12:58

Username Protected wrote:

The route/city pairs are important. Just 1000 nm can be easy, or a real fuel eater based on winds.

East bound. We had a tail wind.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 13:31

Username Protected wrote:

we don’t have the climb numbers to out climb terrain ... OEI or on two engines?

Did you depart into IMC or VMC? You don’t say what jet it is.

Your PC-12 can’t out climb terrain OEI either.

Yes.... one engine climb out is the problem. I spoke with the pilots last night and still don't understand their rationale. Plenty of room to turn around and land back at the airport is they lost one. But they did say they are flying "by the book".

Their "by the book" made a 3.5 hour Pilatus flight into a 7 hour jet flight.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 16:29

These guys sound like they got confused on having to meet climb gradients on a departure OEI and IMC. If it is VMC and part 91, fill her up and if you lose one, just turn back to the airport. I understand exactly what these guys were thinking, but it is not "by the book". They were confused.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 16:31

Username Protected wrote:

These guys sound like they got confused on having to meet climb gradients on a departure OEI and IMC. If it is VMC and part 91, fill her up and if you lose one, just turn back to the airport. I understand exactly what these guys were thinking, but it is not "by the book". They were confused.

I think they were confused also but didn't want to question them in front of their boss. Their decision yesterday definitely made airplane ownership pointless. Ha.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 16:36

At the list price that these LVJs are selling for, can an older Pilatus be had for close to that? Seems like if its not too much more, someone considering one of these jets would get a lot more utility out of an older Pilatus. The speed difference can't be too much with how short of legs the VLJs have. Ya I know used vs. New and all that, but just talking money out of pocket here...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2018, 16:43

Username Protected wrote:

At the list price that these LVJs are selling for, can an older Pilatus be had for close to that? Seems like if its not too much more, someone considering one of these jets would get a lot more utility out of an older Pilatus. The speed difference can't be too much with how short of legs the VLJs have. Ya I know used vs. New and all that, but just talking money out of pocket here...

Older Legacy Pilatus which are slower than NG's are in then $2MM+ range.

Older NG's like mine are in the $3MM+ range.

I agree, a low hour G1000 Mustang for $1.5MM or less is a lot of bang for the buck. I'd buy that over a new SR22. But there's a reason the used Mustang is a lot cheaper than a used Pilatus.