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10 Dec 2018, 19:52 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2018, 08:52 
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Company: Chem Trails of MI
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Boeing/Saab beats Lockheed/Korean:

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/boeing-tx-training-jet/

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Pensioner & flying on the taxpayers' dime.


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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2018, 19:42 
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I’ve often wondered if keeping a manufacturer solvent plays a part in these decisions. Lockheed got the last 2 fighters, so there’s some logical sense in having them develop the new advanced trainer.


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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2018, 19:53 
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Company: Power/mation
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Does this mean I can get a deal on a T38?

:)

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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2018, 21:07 
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Company: USAF Simulator Instructor
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Username Protected wrote:
Does this mean I can get a deal on a T38?

:)

Maybe. In 2024 at the earliest. But it won’t be much of a deal. Air Force policy on the T-38 has been to “de-militarize” the fuselage by cutting major structural members in such a manner as to render them un-airworthy and non-repairable. You can get one but it’s only a static display. A few have escaped but most of the half-dozen or so “T-38s” in civilian hands have an F-5 center fuselage grafted onto T-38 wings and tail.

Break, Break: I wonder what they will call it. I have a fair amount of T-38 time and thoroughly enjoyed the airplane. But I do hope the Air Force gets off this “heritage” kick and calls it something other than the Talon II. I vote for Wizard which carries connotation of magic (technology) and teacher or mentor.


Last edited on 29 Sep 2018, 21:21, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2018, 21:15 
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I'll start saving.

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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2018, 08:52 
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Any of these 'decisions' by the Pentagon is just the first step in a multi-level appeals and litigation process.


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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 21:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
Does this mean I can get a deal on a T38?

:)

A few have escaped but most of the half-dozen or so “T-38s” in civilian hands have an F-5 center fuselage grafted onto T-38 wings and tail.

I don't believe this is correct. Ross Perot's hybrid is the only one I'm aware of that fits your description.
The private T-38 that I instruct in is an original T-38 airframe, as are the ones sold off by Thornton.

Many of the ones that are seen flying are actually two-seat F-5's, generally Canadian or Dutch.

The prices have dropped quite a bit over the past 10 years... if you have $2M you can probably pick up a nice CF-5. Personally, though, I'd hold out for a T-38 over the F-5.

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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2018, 00:32 
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Jon,

What do you prefer about the T-38 over the F-5?

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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2018, 00:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
Personally, though, I'd hold out for a T-38 over the F-5.
Why? Leading edge flaps and a little more power on the F-5, what other difference is there that makes the T-38 preferable?


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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2018, 19:07 
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TINS. The T 38 had two afterburning J 85s rated at 2900# thrust each in A/B. A later variant of the same engine, used in the Navy's T 2C trainer, had 2950# without A/B. If I were going to the trouble of cobbling a T38 together from recycled parts I'd look into retrofitting the non A/B engines just for the greater reliability, reduced maintenance and associated headaches that comes with reheat.

Either engine would just about fit in a suitcase and came with reversible generator/starters with electric start.


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 Post subject: Re: USAF Selects New T-X Jet Trainer
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2018, 14:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
What do you prefer about the T-38 over the F-5?


It's just a bit simpler, overall.

The F-5 is a lot heavier, which demands the higher-thrust (and thirstier) engines. The landing gear are a lot beefier, and it is structurally set up to be able to carry stores on the wings.

The T-38 travel pod is easy to install, carries plenty, and doesn't affect performance significantly.

The T-38 simply does not have any characteristics that will cause it to depart controlled flight. It's very forgiving in all portions of the flight regime. It's simple and light. And it wins hands-down in a beauty contest against the F-5, for whatever that is worth.

The only F-5 time I have is in a privately owned NF-5B, and I've stayed well inside the envelope during the ~7 hours I've flown it. However, I've explored all of the T-38 envelope over the course of 4000 hours flying it in the military, and there are no surprises. It is very predictable in all regimes. I just find it a joy to fly. If I had more experience in the F-5, I might feel differently about it.

For the private owner, I believe the T-38 would be easier to own as compared to the F-5.

As for the observation on the T-2 engines... I got an orientation flight in the T-2 in '97. The EGT in mil power was up around 760 degrees, IIRC. However, in the T-38, the EGT is 645. If the USAF were to turn the wick back up, they would produce more thrust. When they first came out of the factory, I'm told the T-38 was putting out ~3800 lbs of thrust on each engine in full blower. Looking at old Northrop black-and-white videos from the early 60's, the takeoff looked a lot more fun back then!!


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