25 Dec 2025, 12:11 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
| Username Protected |
Message |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?  Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 20:04 |
|
 |
|
|
 |
Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 2837
Post Likes: +2772
Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Is it correct to say the real difference between operating a C500 SP vs a C501 SP is that foreign countries don't recognize the waiver?
For a guy like me with essentially no turbine time, the SPW for a straight 500 is essentially impossible since all providers I've seen require 500 hours of Turbine time. For that reason, no matter how cheap a straight 500 is, I wouldn't buy one. However, I could go out and buy a 501 tomorrow, get a checkride without a co-pilot and blast off (legally at least) solo as soon as I passed the checkride. My sense is that the 501 market is slightly stronger than the 500 market just for that reason alone. Robert
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 20:21 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6667
Post Likes: +5969
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
|
|
Username Protected wrote: For a 500 first you get a CE-500 crew type rating. Then there are a few places where you can get a Single Pilot Wavier. This is an example of one of them http://floridaflightcenter.com/product/ce-500-single-pilot-exemption/You take their course with another type rating checkride, this time flying as a single pilot. You need to meet these requirements for the course: Pilot Requirements: 1st or 2nd class Medical Have ATP or Commercial Certificate CE-500 Type Rating At Least 1000 Hours Total Time 50 Hours of Night Flight 75 Hours Instrument (40 actual) 500 Hours as PIC or SIC in Turbine Powered Airplanes Then you need to renew your SPW with them annually with a check ride Note that the SPW is valid only in the USA. Man am I glad that my dream plane is a P180 Avanti - if I ever get there, no huge TP hassle factor, can fly abroad SP, no Williams guys highway robbing you, etc, etc. How much are people willing to pay extra for being in a jet? A lot, as it turns out.  
_________________
"Either we heal now as a team, or we will die as individuals."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 23:16 |
|
 |
|
|
Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
Post Likes: +3038
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
|
|
Username Protected wrote: And I realize that type ratings don't require an annual checkride, but most jet pilots get annual recurrent training, so there doesn't appear to be a lot of difference between the 2 with regard to annual training time & expense. 61.58 now requires an annual check to be PIC of a turbojet. So you need to do annual training either for 61.58 or the SPW and keep insurers happy.
_________________
Allen
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 23:28 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20978
Post Likes: +26454
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: no Williams guys highway robbing you No, it will be Pratt guys instead. Quote: How much are people willing to pay extra for being in a jet? A lot, as it turns out. Faster, higher, safer, quieter, easier. Why are you flying a turbine Commander when you could have had a piston one so much cheaper? Mike C.
_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 23:52 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6667
Post Likes: +5969
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Faster, higher, safer, quieter, easier.
Mike C. Not true for either 500 or 501 compared to P180.
_________________
"Either we heal now as a team, or we will die as individuals."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 23:56 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/11/16
Posts: 462
Post Likes: +361
Aircraft: Bonanza G36
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Faster, higher, safer, quieter, easier.
Mike C. Not true for either 500 or 501 compared to P180.
501 is safer, IMO. And factually it is certainly easier to fly than a P180.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 16:44 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 06/23/09
Posts: 2320
Post Likes: +721
Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
|
|
|
These legacy jets are so tempting. But.........I bought an old 172 RG to get my PPL a long time ago. Well......I rebuilt every nut, wire , new engine, new interior, paint, new avionics,
, new prop......everything. I cringe every time I think of how much money I spent on that plane. Just sold her a year ago. When it came time to sell it was still a 1983 172 RG. I can only imagine if you start down that same road with a jet!?!
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 16:54 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1989
Post Likes: +2771
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Faster, higher, safer, quieter, easier.
Mike C. Not true for either 500 or 501 compared to P180.
We were discussing a Williams powered C500, a SIJET Stallion. I don't think [I'm not sure] that the P180 does any of these 5 things better than the SIJET Stallion. Maybe quieter?
_________________
Jay
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 18:11 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/05/09
Posts: 1176
Post Likes: +458
Location: Charleston, SC (KJZI)
Aircraft: Phenom 300, Bell 505
|
|
|
The light jets comparison pdf is pretty good but note that the Phenom weight limits have increased, the max ramp is now 10626 and the max TO is 10582. Doesn't seem like much but that extra 100lbs of fuel helps.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 20:02 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1989
Post Likes: +2771
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Looks like speed and range are almost identical (Stallion vs P180), but I think the Stallion wins the other 3 comparisons. Jay
_________________
Jay
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 23:31 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20978
Post Likes: +26454
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: ...sounds to me like you're spending a month in school and about $40K. And probably a lot to renew each year for insurance (my guess). So, nothing sounds easy to me about that. It is easier and cheaper than rebuilding a 1960s turbine Commander. If it takes you a month to get a type rating and an SPE, you shouldn't be flying a jet. Simcom gave me the following numbers: CE-500 type rating: 14 days, $17K. SPE initial: 5 days, $9K. Recurrent training is 4 days, $6K. Recurrent plus SPE recurrent is 5 days, $9K. All of the above were in sim. Boiling it down, the SPE requires an extra 5 days and $9K at the beginning, then $3K and 1 extra day to maintain. In my experience, you can complete the course quicker than the days they list if you prepare properly. Simcom overestimates the time in case a customer needs extra time. Mike C.
_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 23:51 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6667
Post Likes: +5969
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
|
|
Username Protected wrote: It is easier and cheaper than rebuilding a 1960s turbine Commander.
If it takes you a month to get a type rating and an SPE, you shouldn't be flying a jet.
Simcom gave me the following numbers:
CE-500 type rating: 14 days, $17K.
SPE initial: 5 days, $9K.
So abrasive, so Mike, and yet, your math adds up to exactly about a month when you take away weekends. 
_________________
"Either we heal now as a team, or we will die as individuals."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|
