12 Jan 2026, 11:23 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 19:30 |
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Joined: 10/13/15 Posts: 35 Post Likes: +24
Aircraft: PA46-500TP
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"Turn that on, turn that on, turn that on" as he's flipping switches? She definitely seems to go into panic mode after that, though.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 19:42 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14719 Post Likes: +12498 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: "Turn that on, turn that on, turn that on" as he's flipping switches? She definitely seems to go into panic mode after that, though. I was going through the switches associated with windshield bled air, overhead vent, defrost etc. I did have a w/s overheat annunictor come on for a bit but didn't say anything or point it out. Funny she melts when we were VMC on top.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
Last edited on 22 Jan 2017, 22:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 19:46 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14719 Post Likes: +12498 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Great video.
Alright I have to ask.
Who is the lady?
What is the sound? I could tell you but then I would have to kill you Ryan  Just a trump fan who didn't have a date to the dance
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 19:55 |
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Joined: 02/10/12 Posts: 471 Post Likes: +208 Location: kccr
Aircraft: C23
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I figured she would freak when you were IMC it did strike me that you were on top with the horizon insight and she freaked. Good lesson for me when giving people rides. Never had someone get weird.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 20:09 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14719 Post Likes: +12498 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: I heard "yaw damp on," not "get your head on." Great videos! 3:54 mark. Mark reaches down to reset something? Transponder? And he says Ah, get your head on, get your head on, get your head on. Three times. And she melts down.
The transponder thing happened right after rotation. At this point I was say "turn that on, turn that on, turn that on". Mystery solved.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 20:46 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 6353 Post Likes: +4459 Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
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Mark, Don't remember saying "oh %#$@" when I turned right base in our 182 shortly after PPL with my daughter on board. Turned too soon to base. Haha. On the ground my daughter said she thought we were going to die... Note to self, oh %#$@, never out loud with pax.. 
_________________ Chuck KEVV
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 21:04 |
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Joined: 01/02/08 Posts: 8105 Post Likes: +6212 Company: Rusnak Auto Group Location: Newport Coast, CA
Aircraft: Baron B55 N7123N
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Username Protected wrote:
Watch it unfold. I pretty much ignore her because of the job at hand but she is so close to a total meltdown who knows what she could have done out of instinct. I really think she thought she was about to die. hmmm. How do certain situations affect your passengers? When does it become a problem?
When you mumbled to yourself to get your head on contributed to her meltdown. Messing up the squawk code in the D.C. SFRA will get everyone's attention. I triple check squawk codes when around there. Cant you use your AP when flying that departure? Even if in HDG mode and VS climbs? Looks to me like you were hand flying the turn and level offs. AP handling the basic flying leaves more time for other stuff at busy times. You did the best you could do. Her safety is more important then her feelings. I usually do not invite inexperienced or high strung people into the right seat until in cruise and maybe they stay there for the landing. You have to be aware that passengers are watching and listening to every move you make. Keep your game face on at all times.
I had a non-pilot in the right seat of my Baron many years ago. Not a dissimilar reaction - it was just way too intense for him to be so "up close and personal" with all the stuff going on in the cockpit. Now whenever I have a non-pilot, male or female, who has not flown with me before in the right front seat I let them know there are only 2 rules on this flight: Have fun and don't touch a f---ing thing!
_________________ STAND UP FOR YOUR COUNTRY
Sven
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 23:42 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 21024 Post Likes: +26491 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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That is probably one of the more instructive videos you have posted.
My standard briefing to a non pilot passenger who sits in the right seat with me:
"Assume everything that happens is normal. It nearly always is, and even if it is an emergency, you assuming things are normal will help me deal with it. If I tell you to do something, do it without question.
The plane will make various beeps and dings and other noises. These are normal, none of them mean danger. (I don't have a stall horn, only a stick shaker, but even if I had a stall horn, I'd say this.)
During various parts of the flight, mostly takeoff and landing, I will be concentrating and not paying any attention to you. Do not to ask questions during these times.
I will be talking on the radio to air traffic control and they will talk to me. If I raise my hand, stop talking immediately since that means they are trying to talk to me and I need to hear them. What we say to each other is not being broadcast to others, only we can hear that. (Sometimes you have a right seater who doesn't know that and they say nothing the entire flight. If that is desired, omit this statement.)
I may periodically refer to a manual or checklist. This is normal and not an indication I don't remember how to fly the airplane."
When I fly with a non pilot passenger, I do not make any negative comments about my performance, I do not express any disgust at ATC or equipment trouble, I carry on professionally. Non pilot passengers are hyper sensitive to these things because they have no idea what is going on, so they amplify the perceived mental state of the pilot to judge their situation.
Do not brag about how difficult or challenging the situation is or was, or how much of your skill was required. That will just make the non pilot passenger feel like they were at risk at some point in the flight. You may congratulate yourself internally, however, and tell this to a pilot later.
I am also careful with my phrasing.
Wrong: "we are going down".
Right: "we are starting our descent".
I've had a lot of non pilot passengers in my right seat and have yet to have a situation like the one in the video, but I am aware it can happen. A berserk right seater is a scary prospect.
Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 23 Jan 2017, 00:29 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14719 Post Likes: +12498 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: My standard briefing to a non pilot passenger who sits in the right seat with me:
"Assume everything that happens is normal. It nearly always is, and even if it is an emergency, you assuming things are normal will help me deal with it. If I tell you to do something, do it without question.
The plane will make various beeps and dings and other noises. These are normal, none of them mean danger. (I don't have a stall horn, only a stick shaker, but even if I had a stall horn, I'd say this.)
During various parts of the flight, mostly takeoff and landing, I will be concentrating and not paying any attention to you. Do not to ask questions during these times.
I will be talking on the radio to air traffic control and they will talk to me. If I raise my hand, stop talking immediately since that means they are trying to talk to me and I need to hear them. What we say to each other is not being broadcast to others, only we can hear that. (Sometimes you have a right seater who doesn't know that and they say nothing the entire flight. If that is desired, omit this statement.)
I may periodically refer to a manual or checklist. This is normal and not an indication I don't remember how to fly the airplane."
When I fly with a non pilot passenger, I do not make any negative comments about my performance, I do not express any disgust at ATC or equipment trouble, I carry on professionally. Non pilot passengers are hyper sensitive to these things because they have no idea what is going on, so they amplify the perceived mental state of the pilot to judge their situation.
Do not brag about how difficult or challenging the situation is or was, or how much of your skill was required. That will just make the non pilot passenger feel like they were at risk at some point in the flight. You may congratulate yourself internally, however, and tell this to a pilot later.
I am also careful with my phrasing.
Wrong: "we are going down".
Right: "we are starting our descent".
I've had a lot of non pilot passengers in my right seat and have yet to have a situation like the one in the video, but I am aware it can happen. A berserk right seater is a scary prospect.
Mike C. a reasonable approach. Useful. You don't mind if I make some tweeks? It very serviceable which I will adopt with the caveat that it depends highly on seatmates. In a devious way it could be part of a career interview. Grace under pressure. To be honest I have never done this in a formal way. Thanks
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
Last edited on 23 Jan 2017, 05:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 23 Jan 2017, 01:08 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 21024 Post Likes: +26491 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: You don't mind if I make some tweeks? You cannot change anything about it. It is perfect. :-) Of course you can vary the briefing for the individual. I just gave the complete version. Quote: To be honest I have ever done this in a formal way I should develop one. One of the benefits is that it allows you, the pilot, to worry less about your right seater. I find that after I have done the briefing, I can concentrate better on flying because I spend less brain cycles on monitoring the right seater. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 23 Jan 2017, 05:16 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14719 Post Likes: +12498 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: That was distracting but what really scared me was she puked up a whole bunch of blood..... She went all Linda Blair on you. (Exorcist). Priceless. How long till you got the smell out?
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 23 Jan 2017, 05:28 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 14719 Post Likes: +4406 Location: St. Pete, FL
Aircraft: BE 58
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Good posts and video re non pilot in front.
I could argue to keep the brief to the non pilot separate from the passenger brief.... and do it in stages. They won't remember half of what is said. For take off, I like to start with say NOTHING until I tell you. Tough NOTHING. And assume everything is normal, enjoy the flight. I'll point out the moving map and tell them they can occasionally look at it for our progress.
After the departure is over and not busy, I'll point out other things. And the approach is similar to the departure brief, but by this time hopefully they have been trained to point out traffic. And the brief on that is just point and say airplane.
However, as a rule, I just don't take a non pilot with in the right seat, unless I know them personally. And, if someone wants me to help them get their GF over the fear of flying, I'll tell them to put her on the bus.
I've had a few experiences that turned out much worse than Marks video.
_________________ Larry
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