This never happens, my wife is the CEO and I like to do my shopping in CA.........either at Bing or Encinitas Surfboards

I can't remember what the exact number was but I know the breakeven for renting vs owning a single engine piston airplane was south of 200 hours/year.

Though I don't know how much this number changes for turbine operators I am willing to bet a lunch that you fly North of the number of hours a year required to make ownership the cheaper option. I think this would be true for your operation even if the PC-12 was depreciating in the marketplace like most mortal airframes. (The fact that you could probably cash out of your airplane for what you paid for it further skews the numbers in favor of ownership but yours is an atypical situation.)

Granted, NetJets is way more expensive than a garden variety charter. However, chartering, especially on short notice, can be a hassle and brings very mixed results.

For the person who flies less than 100hrs per year ownership may not make sense and though straight charter would be cheaper per hour it may not be reliable enough for the guy who needs to be wherever.

There may also be tax advantages to "owning" 1/8 of an airplane but I have never looked that deeply into shared ownership.

The fact that you don't mind being your own chauffeur further skews in favor of ownership.

To make a long story short - I don't think NetJets is a rip-off but I also agree that your current situation makes more financial sense than NJ.

Unless your business or life suddenly requires you to start flying to Asia (G-550 or whatever type flying) then it may make sense for you too.

Anyone that bought a Pilatus is in the same boat as me. They hold their value. Nothing "a-typical" about it.

I agree owning is not for someone who doesn't fly much. 75 hours a year isn't enough to own an airplane. But my original point on Netjets was that 75 hours is really 50 hours because of the way they operate. I guarantee 75 hours on Netjets vaporizes in just a few flights. Also, the price a NetJets owner pays up front is not what he will be paying with all the fees.

Tax advantages to "owning" 1/8th? If he truly "owns" 1/8th can be depreciated..... But charter payments can be written off. There's no "advantage" either way.

I think once you add up what you paid for 75 hours of NetJets and how quickly you went through it you'd either quit doing NetJets all together or you would buy your own plane if you were actually a big user. What fun is flying private a few times a year and going commercial the rest of the time? One who buys NetJets is going to want to travel a lot more than those 75 hours are going to take him.

I've flown on my buddies NetJets several times. I've run the numbers and watched how it all works.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I did not mean you personally, I meant the PC-12 is atypical. I don't think there are many other new build airplanes holding their value as well.



I am sure you have and I think we pretty much agree - a NetJet arrangement would be more expensive for you.

Could you fly in a new Phenom 300 sometimes and the rest of you trips commercial?

It seems to me someone buying a NetJets membership would be one who travels a lot. Maybe I'm wrong.

Jason,
Here's what my friend will use his share for: visit family in the NE, attend home games for a pro team in the NE (he has season tickets), family vacations, etc.
He wanted "no hassle" flying, no TSA, no waiting in lines or commuting to and from major airports to take the airlines.
He has no problem writing a check for this convenience. I assume there are other folks using Netjets for the same reasons.

Dave

Things are maybe different between NJE us and NJE eu.. But what my colleagues working there seem to say is that the ability for an owner to get a bigger plane for a specific trip if he needs to is a big plus.

I have clients/friends (think Campbell soup) that routinely use Net Jets. To them it's no different than Uber. They are actually very modest people. I have other clients (think NY Yankees) they have a Sovereign, two pilots, and all the other baggage to deal with. And I have another client that has multiple Falcons.

Planes like a Pilatus don't even fit into the equation. And the 300, although Net Jets offers it as a "light cabin"would be like catching a yellow cab to the next block. These people like class and comfort. These levels of Costs are a very minor concern.

Few people reside in the middle area. Hence light jets don't sale.

I'm not sure that's what we're talking about..... I'm guessing these people you know are buying more than 75 hours a year on NetJets?

As for the Sovereign comparison..... One can buy a late model Sovereign for the same price as a late model PC12. Of course the 2 pilot thing blows but a Sovereign isn't a whole lot bigger than a Phenom 300 but it does have an extra 1000 miles of range.

Sam Campbell's used to have a large flight Department. They had a big hangar at New Castle. Also had some stuff at Scottsdale's Hangar 1. Did they get out of the corporate aviation?

Should there be a consideration for "owner flown"? Reason I bring this up is that when we step into 2-pilot airplanes, my hunch (no data to defend) is that owners are likely going be sitting in the back.

The Phenom 300 is currently the proverbial top of the heap for "owner flown" due to it being a single pilot cabin class jet

Jason points out that the Sov can be acquired very competively, but for a guy/gal who can fly their own plane, it won't be the Sov, or any other two pilot airplane for that matter, unless their spouse is a qualified crew member. The Phenom 300 is king of the hill for this segment of users. Single pilot is to the 8 pax jet as was getting rid of flight engineers for the airlines.

Similarly, Pilatus keeps winning with the PC12. It does so much so well, if you can deal with the price of admission, it really delivers. It has proven to be a winner and rewards owners with great performance and reliability. I'm waiting to see how they do with their jet? I'm testing the water with a CJ to see what my utility will be, and maybe a few years from now the additional capability of the PC24 or Phenom 300 will be attractive. Certainly the ability to be flown S/P is appealing.

I also completely agree with the statement regarding NetJets and how they operate. I can assure you, there is 25% extra built into their model. Charges begin when the crew starts handling bags, not when weight comes off the wheels.

I'm not sure that's what we're talking about..... I'm guessing these people you know are buying more than 75 hours a year on NetJets?

As for the Sovereign comparison..... One can buy a late model Sovereign for the same price as a late model PC12. Of course the 2 pilot thing blows but a Sovereign isn't a whole lot bigger than a Phenom 300 but it does have an extra 1000 miles of range.

If you can't stand up in the cabin, it's not that big of a deal. It's NOT a "whole other league". I know plenty of guys with big jets that still bitch about money. ha

If you can't stand up in the cabin, it's not that big of a deal. It's NOT a "whole other league". I know plenty of guys with big jets that still bitch about money. ha

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know more rich people than me. You know people with better morals than me. Good for you