Agreed. Altitude pre-select isn't essential...it falls into the nice-to-have category, even whey flying jets. Now a good 3-axis autopilot is one of those things you really need to have in the jet/turboprop world, especially when flying single pilot. That's why a functioning autopilot is on the MEL/MMEL for most jets/turboprops flown single pilot. The certification issue isn't having the plane level off at the correct altitude (the FAA assumes you can do this) but rather having the plane maintain course and altitude in cruise when it is often in the "coffin corner" quadrant of the operating envelope with reduced margins....

I'm surprised you say that altitude pre-select is the button you hit most often in the ERJ? I would have thought it would be "alt" or "hdg"...

While not "essential", I would not purchase a turbine flight level aircraft without it. It is a great help for single pilot ops especially on busy departures/arrivals.

When I say used the most it is in the sense that when we are given an altitude we use the dial to spin it in, and then tell the autopilot to climb or descend appropriately. I would say that this is done at least 20 times every flight, therefore used a bunch.

I have no business asking because I don't use my A36 enough to justify ownership, but hourly ownership.. I think Mike has stated his short-body older Mu-2 costs $750 per hour and I think 200 hrs a year? (I hope I have that right.) Are there any calendar schedules? What does 100 hours per year year cost?

Has anyone had any practical issues with the noise of MU-2s? Fines or restrictions on use, or simply opprobrium from those nearby when the MU-2 is on the ground? I've read the footprint isn't bad once it's flying.

Ashley

$750/hour including hangar, insurance, maintenance, fuel, fees. Actual out the door costs. Hourly rate going down lately due to improved fuel cost.

Around 100-150 hours/year.


Yes, the factory maintenance program has events on hours and calendar time.

My mechanic's price list for inspections is (base price, squawks and materials additional):

1 year $715
2 year $715
10 year $1,430

100 hour $3,950
200 hour $715
600 hour, 3 year $3,800
1200 hour $1,690
1800 hour $2,957
7500 hour $22,500

Prices are additive, if you come in for 100 hour and 1 year, that is $4,665. The regular "big one" is a 600 hour, 3 year.

My annual maintenance runs mostly between $12K and $20K. The squawk list is usually very short, the breakdowns between inspections are rare.


No practical issues for me. I try to be considerate, but there is no getting around it is noisy on the ground. Not banned anywhere (unlike Piaggios for example).


Yes, fairly quiet on overflight, King Air like or maybe even less.

Mike C.

$750/hour including hangar, insurance, maintenance, fuel, fees. Actual out the door costs. Hourly rate going down lately due to improved fuel cost.
Mike C.

I haven't seen many places where they're banned, but there are a few.

Ocean Reef, FL is one I know that bans them.

Not public use, bans all TPE331, Piaggio, etc., have to reserve landing slots, requires you have $1M liability, name the airport as insured, etc.

Not thinking this is a much of a loss once you read their rules.

Mike C.

Yes, they do seem to go to great lengths to keep the airplane noise away from their precious runway...

Thanks for the details Mike. I'm not sure I understand the costs. Odd years you pay $715 and even years you pay $1,430, plus the hourly charges. At ten years, I guess you pay a total of $2,860 plus the hourly charge. If you fly exactly 100 hrs every year then the first year you pay $4,665, the second year you'll pay $1,430 on top of that. The third year you have $715 for the year and $3800 for the (600 hr/3 year) plus $3950 for the regular 100 hr program. Is that right? That's about $80 per hour or an average of $8K a year over three years. Recognizing that's a minimum, without squawks or materials, it jives nicely with your $12-$20K a year experience.

What happens when the 100 hr intervals don't match the annual? Having the annual done early if flying a little more than 100 hrs a year is not expensive. Doing the 100 hr service at the time of the annual if flying slightly less than 100 hrs per year adds more to the hourly cost? But I guess most private pilots accept the extra cost rather than accept another maintenance period?

Going back to your $12-20K a year for 100-150 hrs, lets call that $120-150 an hour. Say 50 gall/hr of $3.00 Jet A; $150. (A high figure me thinks)
Where does the rest of the money go? Your estimate doesn't include the opportunity cost of capital does it?

Ashley

Yes, that's how it works.


Depends.

If you fly, say, 125 hours/year, do the 1 year early so you don't have to do that separately.

If you fly 200 hours/year, then do 1 year items every other inspection.

If you are close to maintenance, then perhaps it makes sense to do yearly items separate.

If you fly 150 hours/year, that is kind of worst case. You can submit a different maintenance plan to your FSDO that extends some intervals and perhaps that improves things. I hear some folks have done that, but it hasn't been an issue for me, so not worth the effort.


Flying to/from maintenance costs a lot, so you tend to favor reducing the occurrences. My instruction to my mechanic is to have nothing due in 100 hours or 1 year, so I have at least that period of time without something coming due.


Parts.
Squawks.
Burns more than 50 GPH, think 75 GPH block.
Fuel more than $3 on average, say $3.50 lately.
Hangar.
Insurance.

When I get some time, I'll post my total expenditures for the years I've owned it.

Mike C.

I agree. An autopilot which will hold IAS/VS and capture altitude selected has long been standard. In addition, the M4C/D is one of the worst, if not the worst, autopilots to support in the turbine fleet. In any given model, the M4D has always been a price deduction if any other autopilot was optional. For the Merlins, MU2's, 690's, and Cheyennes which are stuck with its lack of pre-select, at least it is extremely expensive to repair. Some planes have digital upgrade options. I don't think anyone is bothering with the MU2.

I've had no trouble getting service and parts for my M4D. It has not cost me very much to maintain.


Some people do seek out the SPZ-500 MU2s (1981 and later) specifically for this reason. The SPZ-500 is a nice autopilot. Expensive to repair but does not require it often. Common in the older Citations, so has a decent footprint.


A new autopilot is discussed periodically. I think it will happen one day.

Mike C.

I could be wrong but I thought I remember you saying you had stockpiled parts for your autopilot?

THanks again for your very informative posts Mike. Ashley