So my cousin has decided he wants to get his pilots license. And since I have my instructor ticket I told him that I would basically do it for free because I like flying and he is family. He wants to be able to do it for minimal cost, so I figured that if I would instruct for free he should just buy a cheap airplane in which I could teach him, and then he could sell it when we are done for about what he paid for it. I think that would be alot cheaper than renting from a school. So my question is what airplane should I look for for him. Think cheap to purchase and cheap to operate. The mogas STC comes to mind so that could help knock down operating costs since we live here in Dallas where the gas is expensive. Im sure the usual candidates of the 172 and piper cherokee come to mind. Can these run mogas? What say yall??

have you done your research on mogas? is your insurance okay with you running it?

Similar discussion recently started here

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=111271

Insurance company has nothing to say about it.

Thanks for the link Scott. I will just follow along with that thread now to discuss airplanes. Speaking of insurance though, what if I decided to use the plane to train other pilots part 61. What type of limits should I be looking at?

I doubt that you will have much choice in the matter. When I rented my Cherokee the only limits available were $1 million total and $100,000 per passenger. I did make sure that all of my instructors were named insureds. Premiums were around $4,000 for a $25,000 hull value.

One thing to note. If you own the airplane and instruct in it, you are required to have 100 hour inspections. If he owns the airplane and you instruct in it (even if you give others instruction) you are not required to do 100 hour inspections. I forget the relevant FAR section, but make sure to look it up before you send anyone for a checkride.

14 CFR 91.409(b), which reads in relevant part:
"...no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and been approved for return to service in accordance with part 43 of this chapter...

Great... Whats a 100 hr inspection cost? Better yet what does an annual cost on a 172 or the like? I am only familiar with Baron and Bonanza annuals.

If he plans to own a plane why not buy what he wants and learn in that.
Early 470 powered planes can run on mogas.

If you can find a good independent A&P, you might get the inspection (no squawks) done for $750-1000. The club I was recently in had a 172 and the independent A&P we used charged a flat $750 + squawks for a 100hr or annual.

Ben-
On a single-ship stand alone policy such as proposed you will likely see limits at only $1m each occurrence with 100k each passenger sublimit. You might be able to secure a $200k or $250k each passenger sublimit but it will see increased pricing for said. You can pretty much forget about a 'smooth' limit policy for a single-ship instruction/rental risk such as you are proposing. That said have your student/renters carry non-owned liability and perhaps non-owned hull to at least cover your deductible on your policy.

Sales tax on purchase.

Cost of selling (ads, commissions, time).

Potential loss of market value.

Insurance.

Hangar, tie down.

Maintenance.

Risk of major expense from AD, engine overhaul, avionics, etc.

On sale, costs to address issues found during prebuy.

Fuel.

Not clear to me that the ~50 hours you need is cheaper by owning than renting. You also have to consider the potential the new pilot decides not to finish after getting into it for some amount of time.

Owning has many advantages, but sometimes cost isn't one of them. I would not own as a pure cost reduction tactic, it has to be for more reasons than that.

What is the new pilot going to do AFTER he gets the license? Why not go ahead and buy an airplane for THAT purpose now, then it is an investment. This also addresses the post license doldrums that often afflict new pilots, having an airplane to fly. The cost for an airplane buy/sell cycle is higher than people realize. Yes, it may mean the cost of training is bit higher for a more useful airplane, but having spent that time becoming familiar with it and getting it in good flying shape is an investment that is worth it.

Mike C.

My opinion... the only way buying to learn/train works out as a cost savings is if you get a great example of a common plane that has pretty much fully depreciated. Something like an old 172 or Cherokee. You have to buy it "right" and get something with a good engine but not too many hours on it, perhaps 500-700. Then you can train in it and put some time on it post-PPL before selling to move up. It is likely the plane will still be worth what you paid with 100-200 more hours put on it.

Now the kicker...during the ownership period you have to be lucky enough to not have a major expense! ie unexpected engine overhaul, hard landing/damage, some new AD, radio failure requiring replacement, etc.

The comment above about the cost of selling or trading up should be carefully understood too. It might work out as a cost savings, or it might not.

Roll of the dice. I taught a lot of yr. in a school, owned a handful of Cessna trainers, don't believe he's gonna save any money by buying his own plane under your scenario. I knew four student pilots who bought a plane in which they all did their private and instrument training. Then they sold it. I stumbled into working with them at different points of their training. Even splitting the costs four ways, they did not save a dime over what the rentals would have cost; plus, as they would put it, they had the hassle of "operating" the thing with MX, parts, dealing with a shop, and so on. It does happen, of course, now and then [saving money by buying one's own trainer], but if it's only saving $$ he's after, renting is the least expensive.

On the other hand, I worked with someone from start through Commercial in a brand-new A36 he bought. Our first lesson, Hobbs read something like 3.0 hr.

Another option to consider is a pre-paid wet or dry block from a flight school. Basically, you'd be negotiating their rate down, but you take the risk that your money evaporates like spilled 100LL in August.

I needed some multi time back when I was considering aviation as a career. Paid $8K for a 200-hour dry block in an Apache.

If you're intent on buying, I recommend a low price 152, or a C172 that will be easy to sell at the end. Someone already mentioned the risk that your cousin may not finish for whatever reason. So many people solo and then quit.