If you can operate a jet for close to the per mile cost of a piston twin, or less, you'd think there would be a huge market. If the choice is a $1.5 million King Air C90 or a $1.5 million jet at the costs per hour your talking a King Air doesn't make a lot sense.

Jesse-

I didn't read through your entire post, but FYI my block times in the Eclipse were consistently an honest 300 knots. On max endurance flights, quite a bit higher.

Ted,

I would guess that since your average trip was probably longer than 1:10. I only have very accurate data for 275NM flights on my side, so I used that distance and the numbers off Fltplan.com for the Eclipse. Give me some more detail on block time for 275NM and I'll edit. Also, how would that change the $1K/hour estimate?

Best,

EDIT - I used 300kts Block speed with no increase in hourly costs (I would guess this is a bit liberal) and came up with a 38% increase in cost/NM over the 421.

I would then be sitting in the seat for 180 more hours to save $85,000.

Again, this is not a fair comparison based on capability. It does look like I need to start flying at 75% power and picking up another 20kts in cruise though! That Eclipse hauls the mail. I'm starting to itch for Jet A.

I really cannot say. My regular trips were between 500-800 miles.

I'm just afraid you will try to run one of these spreadsheets for my L-39 or the Citation next, and I might give up flying after I read it!

Yes, don't ever do this to your self. It was painless for 400+ hours and then I decided I wanted to know exactly what I was spending. :doh:

I agree. Theodore has been totally legit over here. In fact, he's probably been wanting to post this info on BT for a while but refrained.

Ken, I don't feel you're doing that good of a job refuting Ted's story. What's Ted's motivation if you disagree so much? I'm neutral. I don't know much about the Eclipse but I do know that many of my BT posts over the years have made an impact on "things getting done" publicly. You've gotta have an open forum. It solves a lot of problems.

That's okay, Jason. I'm not actually trying to refute Ted point by point. I'm merely setting the record straight that the Eclipse Owners Club (of which I am just another member, not an officer or leader or anything like that) does indeed allow free and open discussion. It has from its inception, and it's actually a very good place to learn the in's and out's of Eclipse ownership.

Unfortunately for Ted, there are some things the Eclipse Owners Club does not permit. That's probably a good thing, lest our owners group start sounding like one of those boards where nastiness prevails and an "I like the Bonanza" comment gets a reply of "you don't know what you're talking about you stupid pr!ck." Personally, I prefer the approach of disciplining our conversation, and to do that, the group sometimes has to discipline those who won't discipline their comments themselves.

As for the factual content, well we could go through it, but what's the point? Some of the things he wrote are true, but a lot of it was not. Ted already conceded he was inaccurate about owners being required to buy overpriced tires from Eclipse. There were many other inaccuracies. Do you think it actually costs $100,000 for a 48-month inspection as he said? Mine was around $10K. Do you believe you actually have to have all your maintenance performed by Eclipse as he said? You do not.

Look, I like Ted too. I'm just getting people to consider the possibility that he's angry and posting stuff that isn't completely accurate.

Ken

Ken,

When I dream a personal jet, something like the Eclipse fits the bill. Obviously you like the plane. Can you give us a report on what owning an Eclipse is like from your perspective. The good, the bad and even the ugly. Then finish up with what kind of financial resources you think an owner should be prepared to commit.

Tim

Ken,

Please do! Tim is shopping.....

RAS

Ken,

Please do! Tim is shopping.....

RAS

Hmmm, sounds like Ken just called Ted a liar. I think that means choice of weapons will be with Ted. What will it be? Pistols or swords?

I read through these posts wow a lot of information. My stand is this. I have owned my Eclipse for 5 years I do not fly a lot but the Eclipse covers a lot of ground quickly and efficiently. I have owned many aircrafts I recently sold a king air F-90 I owned them both at the same time. If you have 2 or 3 people and want to get somewhere quick take the Eclipse its amazing it climbs fast and will absolutely rock at Fl-410. I can true out at 370Kts and burn 45 gph at Fl-410 and the aircraft is amazingly quiet. Parts are expensive but the checkup schedule is light it requires a 24month 300 hour inspection it runs about 6500.00 and a 48month 600 hour inspection that runs about 10,500. certainly cheaper then king air phase inspections. Parts like beach craft are high some parts are almost obscene. The tires are the cheapest thing on the airplane and they can be purchased easily without going to Eclipse. The aircraft will fly around 330KTS at 18K and still burn less than my king air in fuel. I cant say other than price of parts anything terrible about the aircraft. I continually think well for an investment of 1.4M I have an aircraft that will go to Fl-410 get over the weather and burn very little fuel and is about 100Kts faster than anything else newer in its price range. Annual insurance for my Eclipse is about 15K and the yearly training is about 4000.00 the initial type rating is very expensive they require mentor training for non jet pilots. I think the thing that hooks everyone is the cabin it is silent like a hybrid car inside. As a owner hope this gives you guys some overview.

This is a good post. You described the plane very well. Of course, it's not really fair to compare it to the KA. They are different machines for different purposes. one is the SUV and the other is the Ferrari. 2 days ago we loaded up the C90 here with 8 adults and some bags and flew it out to a farmer's grass field for a meeting. Having said that, given the choice between the 2 aircraft sitting on the ramp, almost always I would prefer to take the Eclipse. But then again, my Lamborghini has more miles on it than my SUV and I bought them both at the same time. The eclipse fit my mission much better than a KA.

FYI, for a $2M smooth policy and $1.1m hull with Euro coverage I paid $10k. That's the same price as my R44 policy with $1m and a $140k value! Then again there has never been an injury aboard an Eclipse and only a few hull losses. It has an excellent safety record.

I am not at all angry about anything. I have actually been pretty positive about the plane in the honest review of my ownership experience. It's a great plane despite all the short comings (no airplane is perfect). I have even pointed out that there is a good chance I could see myself owning another in the future.

Let me make something as clear as possible here, because I feel like you have insinuated that I called someone a 'stupid pr!ck or similar,' I have never called anyone a name. In fact, I was the victim of such an attack (a moderator later edited his post to make it appear a little nicer), and I responded to point out the ignore button under my name and that if he really didn't like it, to exit the thread. I had my post deleted and was told that I need to show respect to Lifetime Members because I am a newcomer and that I am not allowed to talk to a Lifetime Member like that. Were things said behind the scenes in emails? Sure. I met this particular guy at an owner's event and will have no problem expressing my opinion of him, just not publicly. In any public post I have shown him more respect than he has shown me and I will continue to do so in any future post anywhere. The real problem came from me posting the manufacturer info on a sub component and being told that it was 'unacceptable' and 'unfair' to EAI to have this information posted up. If that is what you consider a 'free & open discussion,' then you guys can continue it without me. (Which is exactly what I told the Administrator and why I am no longer around.)

The 48 month I had done by a third party but very reputable shop in the Eclipse world ran over $40,000 and I didn't repair all the squawks. Just the couple airworthiness items that popped up. The only person I know who had a 48 month done at EAI came out with a bill of over $100,000. 2 others whose upgrade experience I followed closely both came out of it with an extra $100k in work discovered while the plane was apart for the upgrade. It seems that $100k is a nice round number that EAI seems to like. It's really not hard to see how an inspection could run that high when light bulbs are $8,800.

As far as having as being forced to have your maintenance performed by Eclipse. (I know you have read the Life Extension SB and know what it says, Ken, but let's not talk about that here.) Go ahead and try to have something done at VNE Jet or University Air Center for instance. These are 2 fabulous shops that I have done business with. They have excellent reputations among Eclipse owners. However, they are currently on a black list. In EAI's opinion, if you have your 48 month inspection done by either of these shops, it is not legal and your aircraft is not airworthy. Never mind that the FAA says both shops have approved rig boards and can legally do the inspections. Eclipse doesn't much care what the FAA thinks, unless the FAA's position benefits them ($) Which I personally am fine with EAI having their opinion that your aircraft isn't airworthy, but what happens when you need your Life Extension signed off on? Or what if they take it a step further like they did with the airplane the hit the deer and send letters to the FAA and FSDO notifying them that in the manufacturer's opinion this aircraft is not airworthy? How about the case in that plane where the owner is blackballed from purchasing parts for it. He has been creative in getting parts, but it is getting tougher. That could make for a potentially unsafe operating condition. Ken, these are facts and some of it I know you are well aware of ....

How Does owning a Beechcraft preimer compare regarding where you can have your jet serviced, buy parts and Does the 10 year pumpkin rule apply? Jason, what is it like taking care of your PC-12, do you think the prices are fair?