BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2013, 19:57

Jim:

Indeed I have owned a 690A, and a 690C and leased a 690B. 3000 hours in these aircraft. Bought my first from Eagle Creek and had them service all three. Sent u a DM with my phone number. Give me a buzz if you are inclined.

Love turbines. Love Commanders. Whole different kind of flying. Weather rarely an issue...100 mile deviation is a 20 minute event. Climb out of ice is a breeze. Engine failure ain't no thang. Even out of Aspen or Eagle for example.

$30,000 150 hours and $2,500 top offs are the downside. Figure on $1000 an hour operating cost. $500/fuel, $200/hr maintenance plus reserves.

Not sure many BTers know that the Garrett's can fly on Jet A or 100LL. In fact some say they'll fly on goat piss. But that's just a rumor.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2013, 20:15

Username Protected wrote:

Congratulations on your search. Fun times indeed!

I strongly considered a 690b before I bought the KA. I even made an offer on one. Depending on finances, I may enter into a partnership in an 840 based out of TEX. I've become friends with the 840 owner and he's taken me on one of his trips.

Have you flown the Commander? It takes some work to learn to taxi (TO roll is a bit challenging too). Starts are a bit more involved than a PT6 but easy enough. I'm 6'5" and the cockpit is tight- so much so that I can not consider one if it doesn't have articulated seats. Once in the air, it is simple.

Here's what I consider the major points of each plane:
B200 is more money and less speed, but easier to fly, simpler systems and much bigger cabin. Both planes require a really big hangar (expensive!). PT6's cost twice the engine reserve as Garrett's and use 10% more fuel for the same power. In general, the KA has more curb appeal.

Mark Hangen (popular BT'r) was very generous with his time, answering all my questions about the plane and model differences. He convinced me that if I buy a commander, I really should buy a C (840) rather than a B. Turned out that Mark and I had some aspects of our business in common.

Hi John,

I've flown a Commander, but havent taxied yet. I understand this is tricky and will take some time. I'm also pretty tall at 6'2", and will need to have that extended seat rail STC installed in order to give me enough leg room in flight. Is this the same STC as the articulated seats that you mentioned?

I agree with your comment on the 840. If I had the money, I would go that route, but the starting price on the 840 is a good deal more, and when one comes on the market they generally sell quick (unless the owner is very proud of the aircraft) . My plan is to get an invite to the TP party, and then look at upgrade options down the road.

Thanks John

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2013, 20:41

Username Protected wrote:

Jim:

Indeed I have owned a 690A, and a 690C and leased a 690B. 3000 hours in these aircraft. Bought my first from Eagle Creek and had them service all three. Sent u a DM with my phone number. Give me a buzz if you are inclined.

Love turbines. Love Commanders. Whole different kind of flying. Weather rarely an issue...100 mile deviation is a 20 minute event. Climb out of ice is a breeze. Engine failure ain't no thang. Even out of Aspen or Eagle for example.

$30,000 150 hours and $2,500 top offs are the downside. Figure on $1000 an hour operating cost. $500/fuel, $200/hr maintenance plus reserves.

Not sure many BTers know that the Garrett's can fly on Jet A or 100LL. In fact some say they'll fly on goat piss. But that's just a rumor.

Would need a lot of goats to fill the tanks :lol:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2013, 21:35

Username Protected wrote:

My plan is to get an invite to the TP party...

There used to be a Twin Commander University (every two years?) and parties were held, but I went and it was a three day serious working session throughout. I learned a LOT and it was worth every penny to attend...especially pre-purchase.

The Pratts will run on 100LL as well. Sure comes in handy, in some places. One poor lineman in Canada was mortified as he added 100LL ... until I told him it was no big deal,.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2013, 21:58

Hi Jim,

You will enjoy it as everyone who buys a quality Commander does. The 695/695A/695B/690C/690D (980/1000/840/900) models command a premium but a 690A/B is a solid airplane and great transportation for the money.

I'm buying a G36 now so we should get together!

Bruce

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2013, 22:12

Username Protected wrote:

Hi Jim,

You will enjoy it as everyone who buys a quality Commander does. The 695/695A/695B/690C/690D (980/1000/840/900) models command a premium but a 690A/B is a solid airplane and great transportation for the money.

I'm buying a G36 now so we should get together!

Bruce

Hey Bruce, Jim needs to find me a Commander before I let my G36 go. I really wish I could just keep both. Now that would be fun!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2013, 13:54

Username Protected wrote:

I have a close pal here who transitioned from a Columbia 400 single to a MU2. I told him that I was deeply concerned, because he asked me. Got his new multi rating then went straight into the Mits. That is a huge transition.

Yes, that would be a huge transition. Even though I am a fan of the Mits, I have a hard time recommending that route. I had seven years of C340 ownership and (sim) training which helped me a lot.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2013, 00:42

Username Protected wrote:

Looked at commanders myself back before settling on a Cheyenne II. Too complex such as 4 fuel cells compared w something like 22, ongoing matenance issues and dissimilar metals. There was one at airport near where I'm based always leaked fuel was told the only way to fix one of the leaking cells was to basically split the fuselage in half ( don't know if the guy was embellishing or not).Cheyenne has been great airframe with major advantage being its simplicity esp. as these aircraft age ( basically a navaho w turbine engines). Trues abt 260 @ fl270 easy to hand fly ( actually didn't have a working autopilot for abt 6 mos.) and doesn't have any major reoccurring inspections. The stability issues really are a paper tiger more related to political issues at time of certification. Lot less to maintain then ka or commander.

Been a big thread on another site recently about having an MEL for turbine aircraft and that you can't legally fly when anything is inop. Would be interested to hear from some enlightened folks here what the regs say on that. This post made me think of that. I have one for my current plane, but I know a lot of guys flying single engine turbines do not. I wonder what applies to the turbine bonanza. It's not as simple as in an piston where you can placard something "inop" and still fly.... something as silly as an ice light could ground you without an MEL (at least that is my limited understanding)

I know it is thread creep, so if someone has any insight, perhaps opening up a new thread would be good.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Dec 2013, 10:28

Username Protected wrote:

Hi Jim,

You will enjoy it as everyone who buys a quality Commander does. The 695/695A/695B/690C/690D (980/1000/840/900) models command a premium but a 690A/B is a solid airplane and great transportation for the money.

I'm buying a G36 now so we should get together!

Bruce

Jim,
I flew a TC 690 for a friend of mine. We used Bruce to handle the evaluation and purchase of our aircraft. He is an expert on these airplanes. I recommend him highly.
From a flying perspective, its a great flying airplane and has excellent support.
Learning to taxi it and operating the TPE331 takes a little effort, but its not that difficult.
Good luck,
Harry

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Feb 2014, 13:47

I initially discounted these planes because of age first, then appearance (I know this is shallow, but they're kind of ugly, and everyone wants that ramps appeal...)

That's the first time I have ever heard anyone say a Commander is ugly.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Feb 2014, 14:16

I've always thought they had ramp appeal. I think they're sharp looking planes.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Feb 2014, 15:02

I have a fair amount time in a 690A. I enjoyed every minute of it. Think I enjoyed it more as the pilot than the passengers did, as they were sitting between those engines which interfered with vision some and probably more noisy. Believe it is a really good pilot's airplane.

From G36 To Twin Commander