Never seen an RV (or few other planes for that fact) that can do what a A36TC can, esp when $$$ is factored in. 1600+ lbs useful, barn doors (that is a 7 ft couch in the pic.), killer short field when I boost to 36", seats six, LOP fuel economy, etc. etc. AND THE SPEED! My annuals run a whole $2k. I like RV's, almost bought one; but if you are going to fly distances, hard to beat a 36.

More, faster, further:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/H6xUv4KNlhA[/youtube]

You might get to build and then re-build that Stallion after the gear doesn't come down. I will settle for a fewer knots in exchange for bullet proof landing gear.

Robert

So you want a Cirrus or a Covalis?

Tim

I hear you, but I am thinking that as certified fleet ages, it will get more and more difficult and expensive to maintain. At some point it will become no longer feasible to keep these old birds flying. With the exception of lucky few, most of us cannot afford a new $800K aircraft, so we may be forced into experimental market.

Now, most of us also don't have 2,000 - 3,000 hours to spend on building a plane, but there are outfits that promise to "help" you build it in 3 - 4 weeks, like this one:

http://www.saintaviation.com/

Price is a bit steep, but considering that you are getting a new plane with full glass, 3 axis autopilot, etc. it's not that far out compared to similarly equipped Bonanza. Plus you never have to pay $1,000 for a door hinge.

So you want a Cirrus or a Covalis?

Tim

So you want a Cirrus or a Covalis?

Tim

Timely topic.

A former student of mine built his first airplane... A Rans Coyote (sorry, I forget the exact model). This gentleman has extensive experience working with his hands and had previously build several wooden model airplanes. And I don't mean the kit kind, I mean from prop to tail he built it from scratch - input blocks of wood - output airplane.

The Coyote he built is, as you would expect, a beauty. He's flown it all over the country now and loves the airplane. But lately, he's found the need... yeah, you know what I'm talking about

So he recently bought a kit for an RV8 and hosted an EAA chapter meeting at his house. I have my own leanings towards the experimental side, for various reasons, but I'm also not at a stage in my life where building is a reasonable option. However, I learned a few things at that meaning which were insightful.

One gentleman who attended previously built is own RV6. He did not use the "quick build" option, and claimed to be a slow builder. It took him approximately 5,000 hours to build.

My student estimated his quick build RV8 kit would take him about 2 years to complete, and in my experience, he's very skilled in such estimations. He has completed the horizontal stabilizer, the rudder, and the vertical stabilizer and estimated he had about 300 build hours in just those components.

One other point which was news to me at the meeting (and I also have not yet verified this) is that you only need the repairman's certificate to sign off the airplane's annual inspection. If you do not have the RC (eg, you didn't build the plane) you can still work on the airplane for maintenance, avionics, etc with no signoff required from an A&P. You just can't sign off the annual.

What that tells me is that if you really only want to fly and maintain the airplane, you're a lot better off NOT building one. If I can do everything to the airplane and find a trusted A&P to sign off the annual every year for $500, it would take an awful lot of years for me to recoup an investment of 2-4,000 build hours to save that money each year.

So with that, Jim, I endorse your plan to buy an experimental and tell me us all the sordid details after you do so.

I belive you still have to have a Repairmans Cert to legally work on your experimental, even if you have built it. With the RC you can sign off your own annuals.
You don't get the cert automaticly, you must apply for it for each plane you maintain.
I have built a number of experimentals and have RC for several of them. I now have my A&P so I have not applied for them for my later planes.

I have always wanted to build too. I highly recomend getting 10+ hrs flying in the type you are interested in. I flew a friends RV-4 for a year and it just didn't fit my mission and was small. Pretty bumpy too on certain days.

Not saying don't do it, but know what the finished product is like and how they operate in your type of flying.

Robert,
you don't like graceful Flamingo-like gear retractions?

You said you have two small kids...

If/When we ever have kids, I'm going to build an airplane with them. I plan to start about the time they are 6-7 so that when they get their PPL, I'll just hand them the keys to their new plane.

I have no desire for a homebuilt airplane (the tornado that ripped through Sun-n-Fun a few years ago made that abundantly clear), but I do think it would be a worthwhile endeavor for a dad and his kid(s).

What does the tornado at SnF have anything to do with exp vs certified? IIRC there were more certified planes damaged there than experimentals.. in either case, the tornado wasn't "ramp checking" planes and sparing the certified one

There are many factors that can go into making an informed decision whether to pursue building an experimental.. but I can't see how the one above would come into the picture...(particularly where it's so flawed).

Because when I saw one experimental in the reverse-cowgirl position atop another experimental, knowing both airplanes were totaled, I had an epiphany: That can happen to any airplane. If it happens to my Bo, I call my insurance company and get a check for a new airplane. If it happens to the experimental, even though they might get the check, they still spent ~8 years building an airplane that is now a twisted pile of metal, and there isn't a check that will cover that.

So, unless I am doing it to spend time with my family and teach my children (where the family project is the point - not necessarily the airplane), it's just not for me.

Furthermore, paying (all in) ~$120k for the privilege of spending ~8 years in a hangar mostly by myself to build what ends up to be an $80k airplane just doesn't... make a whole lot of sense to me.

Many E-AB planes are pretty light, e.g., many RVs are about 1000-1200 pounds. I suppose a tornado would pick them up easier than it would my Debonair, but I'm not sure that makes a lot of difference in a tornado.

There are Builders, there are Flyers, and there are Builders/Flyers. For Builders, the thrill is the building, the reward is the completed plane, and they often don't fly that much. For Flyers, the thrill is the flying; they will simply buy another completed plane with their insurance check.


You won't spend $120K building a typical RV. If you include the cost of tools and a professional paint job, an RV-7A will cost you about $85-90,000. It'll have better avionics than most GA planes, and it'll fly as fast as the typical Bonanza, but will only have 2 seats and only use about 8 gph with its Lycoming IO-360. Its maintenance will likely be MUCH less than a certified plane.

You can use the IO-320, do the paint (or a wrap) yourself, do a standard 6-pack with iPad, and you're down in the $60-75,000 range for a new plane that is a REAL BLAST to fly!