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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2022, 11:57 
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But unless interstellar travel is somehow possible exceeding the speed of light, it almost doesn't matter if there are other planets with life, as we will never meet them and vice versa.

Our galaxy is due to collide with the Andromeda galaxy in 5 billion years. The important question remains, if a certain BT'er is alive then, whether he will wave at the inhabitants of another galaxy's planetary system as they fly by.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2022, 12:18 
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But unless interstellar travel is somehow possible exceeding the speed of light, it almost doesn't matter if there are other planets with life, as we will never meet them and vice versa.

It’s important to the experiment to prevent cross contamination.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2022, 17:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
But unless interstellar travel is somehow possible exceeding the speed of light,

Let's assume this is possible.

A piece of rock the size of a grain of sand would destroy your spacecraft at those speeds due to the kinetic energy it would have.

Interstellar space is not empty. It is unrealistic to travel through it at high speed.

Realistically, humans might be able to settle on a few worlds in our solar system, but going to another star is currently hugely infeasible. It would take 1000s of years.

Further, if we find another Earth, a planet with an oxygen atmosphere, that means life already exists on that planet and that life will likely be extremely hostile to our own. I doubt we will get a warm welcome.

We are stuck in our solar system.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2022, 18:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
But unless interstellar travel is somehow possible exceeding the speed of light,

Let's assume this is possible.

A piece of rock the size of a grain of sand would destroy your spacecraft at those speeds due to the kinetic energy it would have.


Presumably, if we are warping spacetime to achieve FTL, we can create shields and/or a DEW CWIS.

Quote:
Interstellar space is not empty. It is unrealistic to travel through it at high speed


Similar things were said about breaking the sound barrier..

Quote:
Further, if we find another Earth, a planet with an oxygen atmosphere, that means life already exists on that planet and that life will likely be extremely hostile to our own. I doubt we will get a warm welcome.


I don’t think there’s much to necessarily support those assumptions as being a pre-determined conclusion to which we should resign ourselves.

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We are stuck in our solar system.


100 years ago, we were stuck on our own planet.
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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2022, 18:38 
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Username Protected wrote:

100 years ago, we were stuck on our own planet.

Realistically, "we" still are.


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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2022, 19:02 
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Presumably, if we are warping spacetime to achieve FTL, we can create shields and/or a DEW CWIS.

While the two issues (warping spacetime and deflecting high energy particles) are hardly related from a physics perspective, it's not totally unreasonable to expect that both couldn't be solved in similar timeframes (e.g. thousands of years).


Quote:
Similar things were said about breaking the sound barrier..

When supersonic flight was being contemplated the physics of the issues involved were pretty well known and the engineers/scientists working on the problem already knew it was theoretically possible given their understanding of aeronautics at the time. We also already had supersonic "bodies" in the form of rifle and artillery rounds.

The main issue was controlling an aircraft while shockwaves got near the flight control surfaces. IOW supersonic flight was theoretically but not necessarily practically feasible at the time due to technological limitations and this was an engineering problem not a scientific theory issue. The notion of a "sound barrier" really only existed in the minds of "lay people" who didn't understand the physics involved.

There's no realistic theory consistent with current knowledge that makes FTL travel (or even motion of inert bodies) theoretically possible let alone practically feasible. That's a big difference.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2022, 19:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
But unless interstellar travel is somehow possible exceeding the speed of light,

Let's assume this is possible.

A piece of rock the size of a grain of sand would destroy your spacecraft at those speeds due to the kinetic energy it would have.

Interstellar space is not empty. It is unrealistic to travel through it at high speed.

Realistically, humans might be able to settle on a few worlds in our solar system, but going to another star is currently hugely infeasible. It would take 1000s of years.

Further, if we find another Earth, a planet with an oxygen atmosphere, that means life already exists on that planet and that life will likely be extremely hostile to our own. I doubt we will get a warm welcome.

We are stuck in our solar system.

Mike C.


If that's the case, then we might as well simply give up, all become shepherds and go back to tending the flocks. At some point, stellar mechanics are going to produce global warming that's going to do more than just melt some ice.

If we're not in it for the long game, we might as well coast to the finish.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2022, 20:19 
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Unfortunately its very difficult to imagine any form of FTL travel that does not also allow you to create a time machine. That comes directly out of special relativity which has been tested under a huge range of conditions.


Note that wormholes, hyperspace, "going around space" and all those things don't help - if you start at point A and end at point B faster than light could get there (in vacuum) you can use that to build a time machine .

With time machines "causality" goes out the window - effects no longer happen after causes, and it becomes very difficult to imagine how that could make sense.

Obviously "never" is dangerous in science / technology, but FTL is as impossible as any technology that I can think of. It would let you violate all of the basic laws of physics we observe in the universe.

Maybe some day someone will recognize how its possible yet still consistent with what we observe, but its no how I'd bet.


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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2022, 16:48 
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AFaIK you don't need to go faster than light to get to a distant star system in a single human lifespan. I've read that as you approach C, time dilation reduces "your" time covering the distance. Get really close to C and you could get there having only aged a few days, ignoring the couple of years spent accelerating and decelerating at 1g.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2022, 18:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
But unless interstellar travel is somehow possible exceeding the speed of light,

Let's assume this is possible.

A piece of rock the size of a grain of sand would destroy your spacecraft at those speeds due to the kinetic energy it would have.

Interstellar space is not empty. It is unrealistic to travel through it at high speed.

Realistically, humans might be able to settle on a few worlds in our solar system, but going to another star is currently hugely infeasible. It would take 1000s of years.

Further, if we find another Earth, a planet with an oxygen atmosphere, that means life already exists on that planet and that life will likely be extremely hostile to our own. I doubt we will get a warm welcome.

We are stuck in our solar system.

Mike C.


When traveling at the speed of light you would be pure energy, so hitting things isn't a concern. Traveling faster would violate the currently known laws of physics, so hitting matter would probably not be at the top of the list there either. Time dilation at near light speeds does occur and would be an issue for societies. Star Trek addresses the sand issue with a "deflector shield". They also make liberal use of "tachyon particles," usually in ways that make no sense.

I am of the belief that there is life in the universe, but it is either so far away we'll never contact them or so brief (on a cosmic scale) we won't overlap with them.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2022, 20:37 
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So, many of you fellers are way more intelligent than I, so......riddle me this......what about a "generational" starship concept? Forget "stasis", "hypersleep", whatever......why not send people "no return to sender"? Obviously food/water/O2 would be issues to solve, as would "on the fly" repairs to said ship.......but would those not be easier problems to solve than FTL travel?

Curious to hear your thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2022, 20:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
So, many of you fellers are way more intelligent than I, so......riddle me this......what about a "generational" starship concept? Forget "stasis", "hypersleep", whatever......why not send people "no return to sender"? Obviously food/water/O2 would be issues to solve, as would "on the fly" repairs to said ship.......but would those not be easier problems to solve than FTL travel?

Curious to hear your thoughts.


Problem is where do you send them? They could go millions of years and not find anything. Alpha centauri is 4.3 light years away, and it's very unlikely there is anything there of interest to humans.

Other issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_ship


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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2022, 21:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
So, many of you fellers are way more intelligent than I, so......riddle me this......what about a "generational" starship concept? Forget "stasis", "hypersleep", whatever......why not send people "no return to sender"? Obviously food/water/O2 would be issues to solve, as would "on the fly" repairs to said ship.......but would those not be easier problems to solve than FTL travel?

Curious to hear your thoughts.


Have you ever been to an HOA meeting? That’s representative of what 20-50 ppl who live in proximity of each other behave like

Now imagine that combined with some form of prison- I just don’t understand how it would work

But we have people on BT that have done tours on ships abroad- maybe they have a longer contribution to the challenges or close quarters confinement for long durations


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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2022, 21:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
So, many of you fellers are way more intelligent than I, so......riddle me this......what about a "generational" starship concept? Forget "stasis", "hypersleep", whatever......why not send people "no return to sender"? Obviously food/water/O2 would be issues to solve, as would "on the fly" repairs to said ship.......but would those not be easier problems to solve than FTL travel?

Curious to hear your thoughts.


Problem is where do you send them? They could go millions of years and not find anything. Alpha centauri is 4.3 light years away, and it's very unlikely there is anything there of interest to humans.

Other issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_ship


I knew I should have Googled it before asking....... :doh: .........ah, well......there are no stupid questions, right??? :rofl:
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 Post subject: Re: James Web Telescope
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2022, 21:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
So, many of you fellers are way more intelligent than I, so......riddle me this......what about a "generational" starship concept? Forget "stasis", "hypersleep", whatever......why not send people "no return to sender"? Obviously food/water/O2 would be issues to solve, as would "on the fly" repairs to said ship.......but would those not be easier problems to solve than FTL travel?

Curious to hear your thoughts.


Have you ever been to an HOA meeting? That’s representative of what 20-50 ppl who live in proximity of each other behave like

Now imagine that combined with some form of prison- I just don’t understand how it would work

But we have people on BT that have done tours on ships abroad- maybe they have a longer contribution to the challenges or close quarters confinement for long durations


LMAO, not only have I been to them, I've presided over them. 8 years as our HOA president......mainly to keep others from making a mockery of the neighborhood. Oddly enough, though, most of the "complaints" I had brought to me had nothing to do with the Covenants! It was shocking how few people had actually read them before purchasing in the subdivision. It was the first thing we asked for before offering on our lot. :scratch: :doh:
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