Brian,

The weight limitation is usually not the limiting factor; however, the volume is. The next time you take a trip actually weigh your cargo. You will most likely find that if you have a family of 4 going on a week or two vacation that your baggage will be less than 150 lbs. We always run out of room before we run out of maximum placarded baggage weight. You should not have to put baggage on the floor of your airplane IMO.

Babar,

I won't argue that a Piper is better than Beech because it is not; however, you can't compare the Lance to a Toga. The Toga's wing is much better than the old Hershey Bar wing.

I'm still stuck on the tail wagging comment.

I think you've got our straight tails confused with the v tails.

Yea, the only thing worse than a Vtail is a Duke.

Yea, the only thing worse than a Vtail is a Duke.

Babar,

I won't argue that a Piper is better than Beech because it is not; however, you can't compare the Lance to a Toga. The Toga's wing is much better than the old Hershey Bar wing.

Just treat it like an autorotation. Look past your feet to the ground and decide whether you like the spot, because that is where you are going to land.

I've flown a Hershey bar Six with 5 good sized adults and full tanks before. The transition from level flight to autorotation mode is quite impressive.

So the fella comes to a Beech board and wants to hear praise for the Piper.....?

Babar,

I won't argue that a Piper is better than Beech because it is not; however, you can't compare the Lance to a Toga. The Toga's wing is much better than the old Hershey Bar wing.

Just treat it like an autorotation. Look past your feet to the ground and decide whether you like the spot, because that is where you are going to land.

I've flown a Hershey bar Six with 5 good sized adults and full tanks before. The transition from level flight to autorotation mode is quite impressive.

+1

I didn't know I had a tail wag issue.

I really dont understand their model politics either. They have ceded EVERYTHING to Cessna.

At this point, the only PA28 variants they are selling is the tricked out Archer LX for 320k and the Arrow for 414k. Both are special order items, unless you order 10 or 15 at a time, they are not going to sell them to you. When they started doing that with the Warrior, they were down to a single customer (the University of North Dakota) pretty soon. At some point, even UND was sick of the games and switched to 172s for their trainer fleet.

To maximize their production expenses, the Archer is delivered with a G500 and the Arrow with Avidyne Entegra, also both use different engines. Now, their main customer are the large puppy-mills, why would they be interested to start their students on either G500 in the Archer, G1000 in the 172 and switch them to the archaic Avidyne panel for complex/commercial/CFI training ?

There should be a way to push down production cost by getting the wings riveted together in India or something. And if you look at the prices used Dakotas command, you really have to wonder why they didn't bring back that model back in the little 'boomlet' in GA during the early 2000s. It is a real 4 adults full fuel aircraft. Maybe some lightweight updates, fuel injected engine and priced below the Cirrus and Cessna offerings......

I really dont understand their model politics either. They have ceded EVERYTHING to Cessna.

At this point, the only PA28 variants they are selling is the tricked out Archer LX for 320k and the Arrow for 414k. Both are special order items, unless you order 10 or 15 at a time, they are not going to sell them to you. When they started doing that with the Warrior, they were down to a single customer (the University of North Dakota) pretty soon. At some point, even UND was sick of the games and switched to 172s for their trainer fleet.

To maximize their production expenses, the Archer is delivered with a G500 and the Arrow with Avidyne Entegra, also both use different engines. Now, their main customer are the large puppy-mills, why would they be interested to start their students on either G500 in the Archer, G1000 in the 172 and switch them to the archaic Avidyne panel for complex/commercial/CFI training ?

There should be a way to push down production cost by getting the wings riveted together in India or something. And if you look at the prices used Dakotas command, you really have to wonder why they didn't bring back that model back in the little 'boomlet' in GA during the early 2000s. It is a real 4 adults full fuel aircraft. Maybe some lightweight updates, fuel injected engine and priced below the Cirrus and Cessna offerings......

Well, it's not just you, that's why they are so hard to find.



They put the lopresti mods on the Saratoga, Seneca and Archer III but never updated the Arrow. 414k and it looks vintage 1976 .

A Dakota with lopresti mods and some further cleanup would be a 4 fat guy 150kt travel plane. But who could possibly need that ?

In the early 2000s, maybe 2002, the Cherokee Pilots Assn invited the Piper president (Bill Blass) to come address the group. All he was interested in talking about was the new Piperjet.

I don't how much Piper paid him as CEO, but it was too much.

Sorry, that's just not true.