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 Post subject: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2012, 23:15 
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Anyone have cost and time examples for a 1,800 hour hot section on a King Air 350 PT6A-60A engine? This inspection is still a couple of years out but I can use the information for budgeting purposes. This will be the first time these engines are split. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2012, 00:06 
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Username Protected wrote:
Anyone have cost and time examples for a 1,800 hour hot section on a King Air 350 PT6A-60A engine? This inspection is still a couple of years out but I can use the information for budgeting purposes. This will be the first time these engines are split. Thanks


From $5K-$50K depending on who does it and what they need. Not trying to be a smart-ass, but without opening them up to see what you've got, there is not much way to say. I would guess that they will want to put in segments which it may or may not need, then skim cut the CT blades, true and balance the CT wheel. If that is all you needed, prices could be between $12K and $35K depending on the shop (per side).

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2012, 00:28 
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I had this done a while back on another 350 I used to fly and it was about 20k per side. I keep the temps around 780 and try to take care of the engines, those who abuse them can expect to pay a lot more.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2012, 10:15 
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It is almost impossible to know with out opening them up, but don't forget the "warranty" word. Pratt offers a pretty aggresive pro rata pricing on parts that don't make it to TBO. Yes, even the hot section

Bud McElroy

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2012, 23:03 
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Last edited on 14 Feb 2012, 01:09, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 02:05 
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I'm new to this, and I'm trying to put a budget together too. The guy that did our pre-by and tail inspection kit advised me to budget $80k per side for hots on a first run set of engines.

However, I've been advised by others to go $30k per side and still others to go $150k per side.

Tom Clements?


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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 09:58 
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Last edited on 14 Feb 2012, 01:10, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 11:10 
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Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm new to this, and I'm trying to put a budget together too. The guy that did our pre-by and tail inspection kit advised me to budget $80k per side for hots on a first run set of engines.

However, I've been advised by others to go $30k per side and still others to go $150k per side.

Tom Clements?



Ronnie had a good point about a first run engine still under warranty. Make darn sure that whoever you use during the warranty period is approved to do warranty work. Pratt charges more than a premium price for a new engine and part of that is their cost of providing warranty, so if you have it, use it.

Some of those numbers are ridiculous ($80-$150K on a first run hot?). If it's mine and they run over $30 then I'm going to be bringing in a second set of eyes for a fresh opinion. I would really think that you should be from $5K for one that needs nothing to $20K for one that needs the combustion liners sent out, new high pressure seals, segments, ct disc trued and balanced.

Under ideal conditions the hot section inspection isn't a repair, it is just an inspection. I only spent $165,000 on rebuilding a -42 that had a catastrophic CT blade failure that wiped out all of the ct blades, the ct wheel, all of the vane rings, both sets of PT blades, the exhaust duct, a couple of power section bearings and on and on and on. It literally looked like a bomb had been detonated inside of it. Hundreds of dents showing from the inside-out, some that actually penetrated the exhaust duct. Imagine shooting a piece of barn tin with buckshot from about 40 yards.

By the way, there are PMA approved parts becoming available for the 41 and 42. We have been running them for quite some time and have saved tons of money and had excellent service.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 11:19 
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The best advice I could give is don't go this alone. Find someone to manage the engines through the HSI. I have have made a few trips to W. Virginia to look at engines going through overhaul, and once I got there the price for the overhaul went down. I have also done this for HSI's by making trips to Atlanta or spending a lot of time on the phone with P&W shop in Atlanta. I do this at no charge if the plane is in my shop and we send the Hots out. There is also a gentlemen that charges you to act as an adviser. He knows Pratt engines very well but I can't ever remeber his name. I know some one on this forum will remember it. I would highly recommend hiring him to manage the engine through the HSI. The money you pay him will save you money in the long haul.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 11:34 
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Last edited on 14 Feb 2012, 01:10, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 12:41 
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Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
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I do run my PT6 engines in the ag business. Hopefully I can eventually run a turbine on my Beech as well. As far as the ag business, we nearly always torque them out on takeoff but run them about 700HP continuously. At our altitude you are usually looking at ITT temps between 25-75 degrees under redline. A normal day would be ten takeoffs and landings with only one start. We are running single engine airplanes that often don't have attractive places to put down, so dependability is crucial. An engine out landing for us is almost always survivable, but more often than not the aircraft will be financially lost.

Our downtime can be tremendously expensive as well. When you can potentially loose $10-$20K per day and piss off a customer at the same time, you can't afford down time.

The up side is that we have two planes, and in the winter, only one needs to be ready to go on any particular day. The ability to take a full week to do a hot does save a LOT of money. It allows you to shop parts prices and most importantly get your own parts repaired instead of exchanged. Repairing is almost always cheaper since the shop must assume your core needs everything fixed when in reality it may be only a minor repair for them. They must also charge more for an exchange since they have to adsorb the cost of having the spare on the shelf. Convenience and speed are expensive.

I have told Ronnie my take on hots, but since I'm not sure I posted them for anyone interested, here they are. FOR US, it pays to do them often. We do ours each year as long as we can get them scheduled during our down time. This is about 500 hours since the last inspection. More often than not, our bill comes in at something so cheap you are going to call BS on me. For me to add a hot section inspection to my annual inspection costs me around $1500. We are looking at the engine anyway, doing the fuel nozzles anyway, and have the airplane uncowled anyway. The only thing we have to do is roll the hoist over and take out the 60 odd bolts that hold the "C" flange together. That takes about 30 minutes for two guys. The turbine guy can have all of the guts out on a table in about half an hour after splitting the engine. He can take the rest of the day to inspect the parts. Any parts that need outside repair such as welding cracks in the combustion liner can be sent out the same day. When all of the parts have a clean bill of health, two men can put the engine back together in about three or four hours. When you inspect often, you rarely get surprised. You can also repair most any part when you do frequent hots. If you stretch it out, you can end up replacing them. As always, YMMV, but this approach has worked very well for this "CSOB turbine operator". I also have the huge benefit of having a top notch turbine mechanic who has been with me for nearly 15 years and he treats me very fairly when it comes to billing. He also takes the time to help me shop for parts.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 13:42 
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Company: Flight Review, Inc
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm new to this, and I'm trying to put a budget together too. The guy that did our pre-by and tail inspection kit advised me to budget $80k per side for hots on a first run set of engines.

However, I've been advised by others to go $30k per side and still others to go $150k per side.

Tom Clements?

Lots of good info has been presented here. Yes, it is virtually impossible to arrive at a realistic cost estimate until the engine is opened up and inspected.

I wouldn't think of ever doing a HSI or overhaul on a PT6 without first contacting Paul Jones at Specialty Turbine Service and contracting him to oversee the process. That is what his company does, they have knowledge and experience, they know all of the shops, and they are working for YOU, not the shop. Paul's number is 724-776-3925. Whatever he costs you will be repaid many times over in what he can save you, of that I am sure! (And no, I don't get a commission!)

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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 13:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm new to this, and I'm trying to put a budget together too. The guy that did our pre-by and tail inspection kit advised me to budget $80k per side for hots on a first run set of engines.

However, I've been advised by others to go $30k per side and still others to go $150k per side.

Tom Clements?

Lots of good info has been presented here. Yes, it is virtually impossible to arrive at a realistic cost estimate until the engine is opened up and inspected.

I wouldn't think of ever doing a HSI or overhaul on a PT6 without first contacting Paul Jones at Specialty Turbine Service and contracting him to oversee the process. That is what his company does, they have knowledge and experience, they know all of the shops, and they are working for YOU, not the shop. Paul's number is 724-776-3925. Whatever he costs you will be repaid many times over in what he can save you, of that I am sure! (And no, I don't get a commission!)


Thanks Tom, Paul was the person I couldn't remember in my op. Damn it sucks getting old.
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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 20:44 
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Company: HSI Turbines, Inc.
Aircraft: 35S
The average cost of a first run Hot section inspection on a large series engine to include, fuel nozzles Inspected, 100hr Inspection, Oil change and Hot section kit/100hr kit, ignitors and Turbine oil in our shop is approx $3100.00 out the door. If no repairs are needed it is a 1-2 day process from start to finish. If repairs to components are required the price goes up.

If it is not being done already I would suggest that you start a borescope inspection program for the engines whenever nozzles are replaced and when the Aircraft is down for routine inspections. We generally do them approx every 200hrs. Which is the same time we use for fuel nozzle inspection.

In my experiance, one of the most expensive and easily preventable things found at a first run engine HSI in large series engines is CT blade rub past repairable limits. With a Borescope inspection program this can be detected early. The engine can be split, the segments field ground and you are back in the air for a couple thousand dollars. If caught mid range you have to send the components out to have the CT blades trued and wheel balanced and segments installed. 7-10K for labor and 6-8K for segments. When caught late you are looking at 60K for new blades, 6-8K for segments and, 15-20K for labor.

A first run engine that has been operated, maintained and inspected properly should not require much of anything other than the inspection.

Any shop that has a mechanic trained in PT6 heavy maintenance can do the Hot section inspection for you and your Pratt Warranty will not be effected. If warranty repairs are needed then the engine or components would be sent to a pratt approved facility, the shop should also contact your Pratt field rep and log on to the Pratt Hub to begin the warranty request process.

When we split engines for Hot Section If outside repairs are needed to an in warranty engine/or for warranty repair consideration we usually send the components to Covington Turbines in Oklahoma. They are a Pratt approved shop that does both AG and corporate aviation and offer better pricing then the other Pratt shops that only deal in Corporate aviation.

On hot section component repairs: If the part just needs a weld repair/return to service and time is critical our vendors will usually have the part back in our hands in 2-3 days. If not we can have an exchange part available within 24 hrs. This should be true at any shop you go to in the USA today.

The only issue you will find with PMA parts is the potential loss of Pratt Warranty. Also, Pratt facilities will not install them but there are several top notch Non Pratt shops around: a few that I use for older engines and when using PMA parts are Prime Turbines, Mint Turbines, RT Turbines.

Best of luck to you,

Richard Harvey


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 Post subject: Re: Hot section cost
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012, 21:01 
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From experience, I'll tell you the PK**** serial numbers on the KA350 AC are considerably cheaper than the 95*** ser #'s on the KA300's. We had a pair of first run PK Ser #s, TTSN:1800, that went in for H.S.I and hard landing. We came out of a P&W approved shop for approx $30K per side.

I would set a budget for $40K per side and you should come out a head of the game. The recommendation of an Engine Management company is a great idea as their job is to know the tricks of the trade with the repair facilities and P&W.

If you need recommendations...feel free to contact me. We have 3 engines currently going through repair facilities, even with an engine background I will still have an engine management group available to protect me.

Hope it helps.


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