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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2010, 15:45 
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Joined: 01/21/09
Posts: 1065
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Location: Cresson, Tx S.W. of Ft. Worth
Aircraft: TN A36
Username Protected wrote:
If the Millennium "investment" cast were available and not included in a witchhunt AD, that would be my choice. Mill Standard cast are really the same exact cylinder as ECI titan (they both use the same barrel, they both standard cast the heads).



That helps Eric. I know I can get a set of new standard cast Millennium cylinders. I will compare prices between these and the ECIs.

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John Whitehead
TN A36 Bonanza
Bourland Field Estates
Ft. Worth, TX.


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2010, 19:15 
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Joined: 12/08/09
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Company: Chuck Ney Enterprises Inc.
Aircraft: B-55
Ladys and gentleman out there, this is my first testimoney of what I do. My name is Chuck Ney, I have been the owner of Chuck Ney Enterprises Inc. since conception in '69. Crankcases were replaced with New back then, I know as I leased a B Model 310 that spun a middle main. (No flying jobs for the Viet-Nam vets) so I made my own after 103 resumes. anyway I carted that $2400 crankcase around with me for a couple years, I made $600 month flying the mail and checks back then. In the coarse of work and no work, I met a friend that had an auto-machine shop, that I taught to fly. and hung out at his shop at night, where the Racers hung out. after watching him one evening size connecting rod on a Sunning Pin fitting machine, I though, this is kind of like what needs to be done to the crankcase. We discussed the possibilities, and determined that if the honing manderal was long enough. we might be able to hone the mains back to size, if we reduced them by removing stock from the mating surface. (like cutting rod cap) the area of the case that was damaged with the spun main would have to be welded and machined back close. then this process would maybe be possible. moral of the story is that from 1969, to 1974 and nearly an act of congress, this sparkling freshly machined crankcase was born, and blessed by the FAA. This is how crankcase repair as its done today was developed.
How the other Shops got into the business, hurts too much to discuss.
What I'm getting at is that I made these things and they worked. I proved them before they went on anyones airplane.
Since this time i have operated a Repair Station, repairing crankcases and cylinders and various other engine components of the Lycoming and TCM engines. I developed a Nozzle that sprayes oil on the cam shaft of All lycoming engines "Ney Nozzles" has saved the cam shaft of many Lycoming engine.
STC's for the B-55 Baron, and several models of the Bonanza that operate with the I-O470' engines, we developed a proceedure to change the displacement to 520 cubic inch with No change to the mounting. making 260 HP available up through 4,000 feet.
increasing rate of climb, overall speed, and SEL up to 12,000 for the B-55's
These STC's I though to be my best accomplishments, but I'm not sure. "I went aganist the grain in 1996 when I finally had all the B---S--- I could stand about why the Taper (Choke ) was in a cylinder barrel, Me, like every other repair shop for cylinders had to comply with the Factory recommended Choke tollerances. I finally rebelled. and said NO More. I ground my first set of 520 cylinders Straight, I put them on an engine we built with factory New cylinders that Overheat on the Test cell, and Yo and behold, we could not get the Straight Bore replacement cylinders hot. Test and approvals for the straight Bore were established in our repair proceedure manual.
We have been producing Straight Bore since this time, we have NEVER had to warranty a cylinder since. further information revieled on the test cell, these cylinders never overheated, but produced MUCH better performance than the factory expected from these engines. No secret to any of this, its easy to find me, shops open to everyone. Sorry for the venting, I'm "66 and tired, and it will be a shame to not know the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2010, 19:35 
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Joined: 06/23/09
Posts: 4557
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Company: Emergency Medicine
Location: ChattanoogaDayton, TN (2A0)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Hey Chuck,

Good to finaly see you here. I am glad you are feeling better.....

Jay

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Jay P.
Last 12: BFR, Solo training day w/6 landings, stalls air work, IFR ground school/IFR Dual.


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2010, 19:36 
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Joined: 10/01/09
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Location: Key West (KEYW)
Aircraft: 1973 Bonanza A36
Been there,he did mine,I rest my case :clap: :bow:

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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2010, 20:02 
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Joined: 05/08/09
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Location: Stuart, FL (KSUA)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35
Hello Mr. Ney,

Is it not true that the top portion of the cylinder runs hotter than the barrel? If so, why wouldn't the diameters even out as we've been told they do? Do the straight bore cylinders end up with more top of stroke piston to wall clearance at takeoff, for example?

Thanks,

James


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2010, 20:09 
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Joined: 12/27/08
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Location: St Louis, MO
Aircraft: A36
Welcome Mr. Ney, I look forward to your contributions to this list in addition to the contributions that you have made to aviation.

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There's no difference between those that refuse to learn and those that can't learn!


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2010, 20:38 
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Joined: 12/12/07
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Company: M.B. Kahn Construction Co.
Location: Columbia, SC (KCUB)
Aircraft: 2003 Bonanza A36
Chuck,

Welcome to BeechTalk! We're glad to have you join the conversation.

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Minister of Ice
Family Motto: If you aren't scared, you're not having fun!


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2010, 21:17 
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Joined: 04/11/08
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Location: Appleton WI or Denton TX, TX (KDTO)
Aircraft: 1965 Baron B55
Hi Chuck,

Welcome to BeechTalk! You've been quite the innovator for GA piston engines and I'm sure your thoughts on your engine building experiences will be well received.

I hope to one day get my IO470s upgraded in the "Ney" way and experience that 260 HP up to 4,000' ;)

Mike

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1965 B55
KDTO-Denton, TX
N2023W SN: TC-971
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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2010, 08:41 
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Joined: 09/13/08
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
Aircraft: S35, 260B Comanche
Do your straight bores run cooler or is this more of a cure to prevent them from overheating?


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2010, 11:09 
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Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 947
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Company: Western Skyways 800-575-9929
Location: Montrose, CO
Aircraft: TN210, TN206, A36TN
Not to discredit any ideas here or the merit therein;

I have been asked before, and will be again, to purchase New "Ney" straight bore cylinders, but you need to first know what manufacturer of cylinder you want (ECI or TCM, perhaps Superior) and then Chuck can bore them straight if you want. If the original casting is having issues with cracking heads or other problems, it probably wont matter if it's straight bore or not. The original casting is still flawed. So, choose carefully which cylinder to start with.

Unless I am grossly misunderstanding something, Ney does not forge and manufacture new cylinders. Please correct me if I am wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2010, 11:10 
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Joined: 07/21/08
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Company: Western Skyways 800-575-9929
Location: Montrose, CO
Aircraft: TN210, TN206, A36TN
By the way, welcome to BT Chuck.


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2010, 11:25 
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Joined: 10/01/09
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Location: Key West (KEYW)
Aircraft: 1973 Bonanza A36
Bryan, I'm not sure how to answer that, I had a 520 in my A36 before the 550, I had Millennium cylinders put on the 550,Chuck did the rebuild and the cylinders (straight bored them), Drew's V35 in the hangar (or hanger) beside me has Millennium cylinders on his rebuild from a shop in Winchester,Va,same baffles, same fuel system set up,same plane except mines an A36 he's a V35, I run about 40-50 degrees cooler all the time than he does,I can climb on a hot day balls to the wall at 1,000+ and never see over 350-355 degrees,he can't, it gets above 85 and he step climbs,, we've had this discussion with the shop at York,his shop in Winchester,and the only difference they can come up with is the cylinder straight bore,so does it work I'm a believer,wonder if someone needed a #4 cylinder that cracked from overheat replaced it with a straight bore if that would cure the heat issue?? :scratch:

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A fact of life : After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says W T F !


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2010, 11:36 
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Joined: 03/08/09
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Aircraft: Bonanza M35
Welcome Chuck! Great to here from your point of view, even if it may be a little venting!

As for your question James, here is my post from a couple of days ago.

[color=#00FFFF]Correct. "Straight bore" means no choke. I have just purchase a set of straight bore cylinders from Chuck and am in the process of getting my M35 back flying. I can't hardly wait to see how the cylinders perform. As an engineer I have done the math on thermal expansion vs the temperature gradient on the cylinders. There is no way that the temperature change from one end of the cylinder to the other could be great enough to justify the choke, let alone the choke only being in less than the top 1/3 of the barrel. New 520s from TCM have little or no choke. Hmm. Does that mean that maybe it should not have been there in the first place??? :scratch:[/color]

Another point, a lot has been written about cold starts and proper engine preheat. Without being technical, think about those piston rings slamming into the cylinder wall taper (choke) at start up, preheated or not! Boy, and more often than not, cylinders need to be replaced or plated why? Because the choke is wore! Again, Why is it there? :scratch:

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at KLXV


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 Post subject: Re: Which cylinders to use?
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2010, 14:25 
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Joined: 12/13/09
Posts: 7
Aircraft: A-36 TN
John: Ultimate Engines installed Eci cylinders when we did our overhaul back in 2001. They were fine for about 800 hours but always ran hot...we are TNIO 550 and want to keep the warmest cyilinder at 380 or less...No way wiitha Eci except on cold days. I sthink the problem is that their inter cylinder spacing is too wide for the air to be fully forced into the depths of the cooling fins and conduct the heat away. Milleniums have closer spacing cylinder to cylinder. Eventually, #5 Eci blew its top off and we had a forced landing, which fortunately ended safe and sound on an airport. Oil consumption was fine to the end...they are just hot. We replaced 'em with Millenium taper fins whcih so far are running very cool and also only burn a quart about every 25 hours. Wish those were still available for you to install.

To correct another post, Capehart sold out to Pete Lobello who later sold to Murray and Tabetha.


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