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 Post subject: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010, 10:44 
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Aircraft: 1962 Debonair B33
Hey guys, I was just trying to figure out why my right fuel indicator is no worky. Took it out and noticed no resistence change regardless of where the float is. Reading zero resistance. Doesn't show a part number on the sender. What are my options?

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Andy "Freewilly" Freeman
414 FG/CC
UAL F.O.
APS Graduate 2011
KGWW
NC


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010, 11:56 
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Location: Palos Verdes, CA (KTOA)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36TN
Call mechanic. Pay him some money. Voila! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010, 12:01 
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Location: Staten Island, NY (3N6 airport)
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What Jamie said.

I don't have a deb parts manual, but the manual will show the appropriate part number and then you call RAPID.

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The above is not, in any way, to be construed as advice. YMMV! It's worth what you paid for it!


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010, 12:42 
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Location: Charlotte, NC (KUZA)
Aircraft: 1968 Bonanza V35A
Username Protected wrote:
Hey guys, I was just trying to figure out why my right fuel indicator is no worky. Took it out and noticed no resistence change regardless of where the float is. Reading zero resistance. Doesn't show a part number on the sender. What are my options?


You left a little out, like your serial number. I could figure it out from your N number, but I am too lazy. ;) Different versions of the fuel transmitters have different specifications, some have one post, some two, some four. There are very many versions of resistance used and different circuit theory of operation. So where your measurements were made, between what posts, makes all the difference in the world. By the way, no worky :thumbup: might be a good technical term, but it is much more informative to describe what it does or doesn't do.

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Regards,

John D. Collins CFI, CFII, MEI
68 V35A N7083N Home Base KUZA
Charlotte, NC
(704) 576-3561 Cell


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010, 14:08 
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Location: Southern California
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Air Parts of Lock Haven can rebuild the sender.

PMC


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010, 23:29 
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Aircraft: 1962 Debonair B33
Username Protected wrote:
Hey guys, I was just trying to figure out why my right fuel indicator is no worky. Took it out and noticed no resistence change regardless of where the float is. Reading zero resistance. Doesn't show a part number on the sender. What are my options?


You left a little out, like your serial number. I could figure it out from your N number, but I am too lazy. ;) Different versions of the fuel transmitters have different specifications, some have one post, some two, some four. There are very many versions of resistance used and different circuit theory of operation. So where your measurements were made, between what posts, makes all the difference in the world. By the way, no worky :thumbup: might be a good technical term, but it is much more informative to describe what it does or doesn't do.



Thanks all for the replies. John, i have reviewed the ABS documents on Bo fuel systems. My Debbie is CD-409. She has two floats in each wing (one post each). They are in series going to the gages which is not co-located with the PC. (it has updated Beechcraft fuel indicators i think, (see attached). From what i can gather the outboard float assembly is grounded to the airframe and the float post goes in series to the inboard float ground. The inboard float terminal then shoots to the PC then ulitmately to the gage. Funny thing after i pulled the float and was getting no change in resistence with the ohm meter (float housing to float post), i put it back together and walla, the float now seems to increase resistence when i raise the lever when installed. All i can figure is by me tightening down the bottom nut on the float post it fixed what ever was not working (no resistence increase with increased fuel). Sorry about the data in my previous post. It was 100 degrees in my hanger and my IPHONE was not cooperating very well.

Okay with all that diatribe out of the way. It appears the only problem i am having on both sides now is the gages never really read full even when topped off. They go to about three quarters. I suppose i am destined to run each side dry to figure out what the gages will show when she is empty. I have a FP-5 FF monitor that is very accurate and is what i am currently using for my fuel management. I only dove into this today because i wanted to ensure my floats were good to go, because i am having a JPI 930 installed in the upcoming weeks and wanted to be sure the senders would send good data to the JPI.

Respectfully

Andy Freeman

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Andy "Freewilly" Freeman
414 FG/CC
UAL F.O.
APS Graduate 2011
KGWW
NC


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 09:19 
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Christopher,

I don't think those fuel gages are the standard ones for your aircraft. At some point, when they were changed, there should be a logbook entry detailing the change. It is likely that the fuel senders needed to be replaced at the same time.

I would be surprised if they use the printed circuit. If they do use the printed circuit, it has an adjustment pot on it to adjust the full reading. But more than likely, you don't have the printed circuit and the only way to adjust the full and empty is to adjust the arms on the fuel senders, that is assuming the gage reads correctly. The outboard arm will determine full and the inboard arm will determine empty.

The original wiring for your ship is as you described, two transmitters, each with one post and the case being the other side of the rheostat. The inboard sender case should be isolated from ground. To verify this, remove both wires and measure from the case to ground, it should be an open circuit. With the wires removed, check the indication on the gage. Then short the wire that attaches to the post (the one that goes to the gage) to ground, and read the indication on the gage. One way aught to be full and the other aught to be empty. Report what you find.

_________________
Regards,

John D. Collins CFI, CFII, MEI
68 V35A N7083N Home Base KUZA
Charlotte, NC
(704) 576-3561 Cell


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 21:32 
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Username Protected wrote:
... I am having a JPI 930 installed in the upcoming weeks and wanted to be sure the senders would send good data to the JPI.

Respectfully

Andy Freeman

Maybe it's different with the 930 (I have a 700) but I think my fuel totalizer operates independently of the floats and senders. As I understand it, there's a little rotating vane in the fuel flow line to the spider that spins as fuel flows past it. The rotating vanes open and close an optical circuit that "counts" the vanes, and in turn a fuel flow is calculated from that based on a constant that is resettable in the JPI display itself. 'Course, I could be mistaken...


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 22:28 
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Aircraft: 1962 Debonair B33
Username Protected wrote:
... I am having a JPI 930 installed in the upcoming weeks and wanted to be sure the senders would send good data to the JPI.

Respectfully

Andy Freeman

Maybe it's different with the 930 (I have a 700) but I think my fuel totalizer operates independently of the floats and senders. As I understand it, there's a little rotating vane in the fuel flow line to the spider that spins as fuel flows past it. The rotating vanes open and close an optical circuit that "counts" the vanes, and in turn a fuel flow is calculated from that based on a constant that is resettable in the JPI display itself. 'Course, I could be mistaken...


I believe in theory you are correct. I have a 700 without FF now. My EI FP-5 does the same type thing to give me a very accurate FF which i currently use for my fuel managment. Unlike the 700, the 930 has FF and quantity. I need good sending units for for the fuel quantity indicators that are part of the 930. It really is a nice EMD.

VR

Andy
_________________
Andy "Freewilly" Freeman
414 FG/CC
UAL F.O.
APS Graduate 2011
KGWW
NC


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 09:47 
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Aircraft: 1962 Debonair B33
Username Protected wrote:
Christopher,

I don't think those fuel gages are the standard ones for your aircraft. At some point, when they were changed, there should be a logbook entry detailing the change. It is likely that the fuel senders needed to be replaced at the same time.

I would be surprised if they use the printed circuit. If they do use the printed circuit, it has an adjustment pot on it to adjust the full reading. But more than likely, you don't have the printed circuit and the only way to adjust the full and empty is to adjust the arms on the fuel senders, that is assuming the gage reads correctly. The outboard arm will determine full and the inboard arm will determine empty.

The original wiring for your ship is as you described, two transmitters, each with one post and the case being the other side of the rheostat. The inboard sender case should be isolated from ground. To verify this, remove both wires and measure from the case to ground, it should be an open circuit. With the wires removed, check the indication on the gage. Then short the wire that attaches to the post (the one that goes to the gage) to ground, and read the indication on the gage. One way aught to be full and the other aught to be empty. Report what you find.



Thanks John. I removed the wires from the inboard sensor and it is isolated from ground. The indicator for the right tank showed between 3/4 and full. I then grounded the inboard post wire and the indication showed empty. I have attached the pictures. I am going through the logs now to determine when these gages were installed. I assume it was done when the D'Shannon Tips were installed.

Respectfully

Andy


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_________________
Andy "Freewilly" Freeman
414 FG/CC
UAL F.O.
APS Graduate 2011
KGWW
NC


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel sending unit
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 10:11 
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Location: Charlotte, NC (KUZA)
Aircraft: 1968 Bonanza V35A
Chris,

If you are planning on replacing the gages with a JPI unit that has fuel level indication, I would suspect that you can calibrate the JPI unit with any set of fuel transmitters.

The fact that the gage doesn't read full when you have an open circuit indicates that the gage needs overhaul or calibration if there is a printed circuit board associated with it.

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Regards,

John D. Collins CFI, CFII, MEI
68 V35A N7083N Home Base KUZA
Charlotte, NC
(704) 576-3561 Cell


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