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03 Nov 2025, 04:37 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2013, 12:55 
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Joined: 09/04/10
Posts: 3540
Post Likes: +3231
Aircraft: C55, PC-12
I was a corporate pilot a few former life's ago. I had good days and bad and good employers and bad. It's was really fun to fly on somebody elses dime for awhile, but the 2am wake-ups got old. Working for the airlines was a better job but that got old too for different reasons.

I'm far happier teaching in a 182 than I would be in either of those jobs at this point in my life. I just made an offer on a nice -10 690B and will find out this week if they accept. Ever since I started yanking the gear in corporate KA's, I dreamed of owning a turbo prop. It's been so cool reading about JC's move into the PC12 and the adventures that followed, I couldn't help but dream of creating my own turbo-prop adventures!

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John Lockhart
Phoenix, AZ
Ridgway, CO


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2013, 13:26 
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Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 1858
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Location: Red Deer, Alberta (CRE5/CYQF)
Aircraft: M20E/Bell47
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...
I keep coming back to the P180. My math says it's a fast PC12. I just worry about MX. You don't see many of them but it sure seems to be a great all around plane.
...

Jason, the group that did some of the work on my Aerostar before I brought it back to Canada had a P180 that they owned/maintained. I think you are correct to be concerned. I was told that they did not really consider maintenance when it was designed. For example, I believe to get at the pressurization outflow valve the entire bathroom had to be removed.

Glenn


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2013, 13:41 
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13085
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
MX is the only bad story I've heard on the P180. Having to fly to NJ or south florida to get it worked on would be a pain. I'm not sure that's true but just what I've been told.

I truly don't see why they aren't as popular as the PC12 though. They do a lot more than most jets.


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2013, 16:07 
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Joined: 01/08/10
Posts: 713
Post Likes: +219
Location: 45G - Brighton, MI.
Aircraft: V35A
I also fly a Citation X. I was on the ramp a couple of weeks ago at Portland Oregon and struck up a conversation with the pilot of a V35 sitting on the ramp. As a fellow V35 owner, I was much more interested in talking to him about his plane!


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2013, 17:49 
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Joined: 03/19/12
Posts: 4044
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Location: Belton, TX (KTPL)
Aircraft: 1968 Bonanza E33
With Avantair on the outs could be a lot of P180's hitting the market.


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2013, 18:52 
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12833
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Jason - what about a Cheyenne 400? 335 KTAS, FL410 is pretty nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2013, 21:32 
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Joined: 06/23/09
Posts: 2320
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Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
Matthew,
Sent you a PM. The airport KUNV is good. Really only one runway 6-24. First game day yesterday was easy. Might be busier with a big rival like Michigan or Ohio State. FBO has always been good to us. Treated the same in the Lear as in the Bo! University literally 10 minutes from airport.


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2013, 21:41 
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Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 10019
Post Likes: +2491
Location: Arizona (KSEZ)
Username Protected wrote:
I was a corporate pilot a few former life's ago. I had good days and bad and good employers and bad. It's was really fun to fly on somebody elses dime for awhile, but the 2am wake-ups got old. Working for the airlines was a better job but that got old too for different reasons.

I'm far happier teaching in a 182 than I would be in either of those jobs at this point in my life. I just made an offer on a nice -10 690B and will find out this week if they accept. Ever since I started yanking the gear in corporate KA's, I dreamed of owning a turbo prop. It's been so cool reading about JC's move into the PC12 and the adventures that followed, I couldn't help but dream of creating my own turbo-prop adventures!

John, I had a good friend that set the around the World speed record in a -10 Commander in 1982. It still stands today. Unless someone attempts to break it. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Lear 55.........WOW!!!!
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2013, 07:56 
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Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3308
Post Likes: +1434
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Username Protected wrote:
Why are jets so "weight critical" and planes like the PC12 not so much?


It's really just a matter of physics, nothing more.

eta_p = (2 * v/c) / (1 + v/c)^2

where eta_p is propulsive efficiency, c is the exhaust speed, and v is the speed of the aircraft.

A corollary of this is that, particularly in air breathing engines, it is more energy efficient to accelerate a large amount of air by a little bit than a small amount by a large amount, even though the thrust is the same.

Physics itself explains why a turbofan is more efficient than a turbojet, explains why we keep making turbofans with larger fans and higher bypass ratios and why a turboprop will almost always be more efficient than a jet.

Jets are inherently less efficient than propeller driven aircraft due to the smaller volume of air they propel. Less efficiency means higher fuel burn and the need to carry more fuel.

The PC12 is going to be very tough to beat from a utility / efficiency standpoint.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


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