BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 07:00

Username Protected wrote:

Thanks Jason. Vast majority of trips would be with 3 maybe 4 passengers about 500nm.

That's a perfect mission for a TN36

The Meridien is no bigger inside than a Bonanza so what's the point?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 07:11

The JetProp also keeps some of the nose baggage compartment of the Malibu (the nose baggage is a bit smaller because of some of the JetProp specific components that were installed there) ... not sure if the header tank cuts into it or what.

I have never heard of the JetProps with the wrinkled wing skins ... are there Meridians with wrinkled wing skins? I would like to see some photos and some articles explaining what happened. Usually, when the skins are wrinkled, that airplane almost failed and of course, that is a really big deal. I recall that one of the Royal Turbine Dukes ran into a thunderstorm and almost came apart. That was pretty well documented and basically pilot error.

Although there is some talk about the "beef up" of a Meridian vs JetProp, my understanding is that it's mostly about adding some fuel capacity because of the larger (some say wrong) engine that was chosen for the Meridian.

Mike

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 07:29

If you look at a Meridian as a more comfortable, safer Bonanza, you'll enjoy it. If you need a corporate workhorse, you'll be disappointed.

Back when I was a young guy, I would have spent my entire paycheck on a jet. But, when you are really in the position to decide what you to with your $$ millions, something big changes....family needs. There is a million ideas chasing every $million you can muster.

Sometimes a Meridian and that wonderful, 2nd home in the mountains can be better than a jet!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 07:31

The meridian has a much larger empennage than the piston PA46's. It (and all PA46's from 1999 onwards) have a beefed up spar. People like post'99 jetprops for that reason but the earlier ones aren't coming apart.

Wing wrinkling is not unheard of amond Meridians. The 5100lb weight, maybe overgross, plus the higher redline offers opportunities for trouble in turbulence.

The Meridian has no nose baggage at all. The jetprop uses that space for a header tank. 10 gallon tank leaves about half the area - big enough for a kid's car seat. THe 20 gallon tank (optional) pretty much takes it all and leaves space for chocks, pitot covers, etc.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 07:57

Username Protected wrote:

I certainly wouldn't say that. I don't have the exact dimensions handy but the Meridian cabin and luggage area are quite a bit roomier than an A36. I'm sure someone will post actual specs.

I've flown them and climbed all around inside. The Meridien is short and wide while the Bonanza is tall and skinny. In the pilot seat in the Meridien, your feet sit straight out in front of you. The Bonanza is more like sitting in a chair.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 08:50

Username Protected wrote:

I certainly wouldn't say that. I don't have the exact dimensions handy but the Meridian cabin and luggage area are quite a bit roomier than an A36. I'm sure someone will post actual specs.

I've flown them and climbed all around inside. The Meridien is short and wide while the Bonanza is tall and skinny. In the pilot seat in the Meridien, your feet sit straight out in front of you. The Bonanza is more like sitting in a chair.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 09:33

Username Protected wrote:

If you look at a Meridian as a more comfortable, safer Bonanza, you'll enjoy it. If you need a corporate workhorse, you'll be disappointed.

Back when I was a young guy, I would have spent my entire paycheck on a jet. But, when you are really in the position to decide what you to with your $$ millions, something big changes....family needs. There is a million ideas chasing every $million you can muster.

Sometimes a Meridian and that wonderful, 2nd home in the mountains can be better than a jet!

This is a nice little post in the middle of this thread.

I agree Rick. There was a time I would have spent every penny to get into a King Air or a jet. But as my dad told me long ago "as you get older your goals and desires change". He was, and still is, a wise man.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 11:16

Username Protected wrote:

As Don said, getting back to the Meridian.

It appears from the postings that I am the only one replying that actually is currently flying one right now. As I said, I have a 2001 model (which isn't depreciating at 25k a month) and have new avionics in it, dual G500s, etc, etc (and XM radio too Jason).

The airplane is "almost" perfect for me. The two areas that it falls down, for me, are range and payload. I get the range upgrade with the TBM, but not the payload (you still have to pack light). I couldn't get into the earliest TBM for what I have in my 2001 Meridian, fully upgraded, so it wasn't an comparison I could make. Would I upgrade out of my Meridian for a TBM, probably not. It is still a 4-5 person airplane, limited luggage, and considered a smaller airplane (not trying to start a flame war here, but let's be realistic). I also wouldn't consider an eclipse, or probably a mustang, for the very same reason. That is my view, and how I look at it.

I would consider, and am actually looking at (as we speak in PHX), a PC-12. I agree the NG stuff is really nice, and it is more of a bizjet feel, but not in my price range today. So, I may sell my Meridian, or I may decide that the price to step up to carry more people and luggage, and have range, isn't worth it. I am still working on the calculus. If I could dry lease a PC-12 in SoCal, it would make it much easier to justify (not going to really do that with a TBM or PA46).

In the end, the Meridian is a fine machine, that goes pretty fast, and is pretty darned reliable. I like the Meridian over the Jetprop conversion because the airframe, design, etc is more 2000 based than the conversions (digital engine instruments, etc). The certification on the Meridian was more intense than the STC on the Jetprop (my redline is 188knots, which means the plane was certified to a certain gust factor/loading at that speed, compared to the yellow arc on the malibu). I say that with the caveat that I made an offer on a Jetprop immediately before I ended up getting the Meridian, it was a dollars and sense decision. They are both fine machines.

If you mission is 800nm or less, you aren't going to be carrying more than 3 passengers, and if you go longer you are okay stopping for fuel, than it is hard to go wrong with an earlier meridian, because you can get them with the Garmin stacks for under 900k. If you step up to a newer bird in the 1.1-1.3 range, then a TBM would be something I would seriously look at (even if it is older). A new meridian would never fly for me, I would much rather fly a 10 year old airframe.

Keep in mind that the Meridian requires a dual G500 install because of the fact that the autopilot requires dual adahrs inputs to function. The TBM and PC-12 do not have this requirement, making a partial panel upgrade much more doable. And to answer the question, the meggitt stuff doesn't even come close to the G500.

-jason

Jason,

It will be hard to find a PC-12 as nicely equipped as your Meridian.

Russ

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 12:30

Username Protected wrote:

The JetProp also keeps some of the nose baggage compartment of the Malibu (the nose baggage is a bit smaller because of some of the JetProp specific components that were installed there) ... not sure if the header tank cuts into it or what.

I have never heard of the JetProps with the wrinkled wing skins ... are there Meridians with wrinkled wing skins? I would like to see some photos and some articles explaining what happened. Usually, when the skins are wrinkled, that airplane almost failed and of course, that is a really big deal. I recall that one of the Royal Turbine Dukes ran into a thunderstorm and almost came apart. That was pretty well documented and basically pilot error.

Although there is some talk about the "beef up" of a Meridian vs JetProp, my understanding is that it's mostly about adding some fuel capacity because of the larger (some say wrong) engine that was chosen for the Meridian.

Mike

Mike, there was indeed a Royal Turbine Duke that was flown into a level 5 thunderstorm. Lets not assume why that happened, but it did. The owner pilot of the plane and the folks on board were "beyond this world" lucky to survive. Nobody knows if the airplane "almost" came apart, because it didn't come apart at all. Matter of fact, the airplane is completely repaired and is flying today. It required a substantial amount of repair. Both wings were bent and twisted noticably, but never broken. Says something about the Beech design. Not sure what the outcome would've been in a jet-prop or meridian, or any other airplane for that matter. Hopefully nobody tries to find out.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 12:42

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 152&akey=1

Quote:

As the pilot initiated a 180-degree turn to leave the icing conditions, the plane encountered severe downdrafts. The pilot declared an emergency and landed at Santa Fe in visual meteorological conditions without further incident.

Postaccident examination revealed the inboard panels of both bonded wings were wrinkled, necessitating the replacement of the entire wing assembly.

Wonder how often something like this happens...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 13:02

Username Protected wrote:

Jason,

It will be hard to find a PC-12 as nicely equipped as your Meridian.

Russ

Russ:

I know! I was out in SDL and DVT yesterday looking at various PC-12s. This thread really does make me think about that decision. I flew there in a G36, and to me there was no comparison between the quasi cabin class interior of the Meridian/Jetprop versus the Bo. I really love the G36, but I think it is a different airplane for a different type of operation. That being said, the G1000 was nice, but not nice enough to make me want a newer meridian over the dual G500/GTN750 setup (which is what I would probably do in a PC-12, since I can't get a retrofit from Honeywell on the NG setup).

There were several jetprops on the ramp and I even opened up one of the nose baggage compartments and looked longingly at it. In the end, I would happily fly one, but I personally prefer the meridian. There is a great debate on MMOPA between the two. In the end, every person I know flys the Jetprop overgross. A wise A&P told me it was one sensational crash away from getting ramp checked all the time. Kind of made sense, but I would be happy flying one if it had been in my price range.

The Meridian does have a much larger tail and I notice that considerably on landing versus the Malibu/Mirage. May not be a big deal to some, but it gives you a little buffer. The nose gear on the PA46 is not that strong and slamming it down by loss of elevator authority will cause the nose gear to collapse. I wish I was good enough to say I greased it on each time...

The comment about being happy with a Meridian and having a second home in the mountains was really on target. Maybe I should just be happy with what I have. It is a fine airplane!

-jason

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 13:28

Username Protected wrote:

THere are a lot of early birds with wrinkled wings from taking heavy turbulence at red line, so watch out for that.

-jason

Jason - do you have any specific examples of Malibu JetProps or Meridian's with wrinkled wings? I have not heard of these. We all know there have been a number of in flight breakups of Malibu's ... but that problem for the most part went away with better pilot training.

You said specifically ... "caused by taking heavy turbulence at red line" ... wouldn't this be huge news? Certainly, the near breakup of the Royal Turbine was big news.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 13:36

Username Protected wrote:

Jason - do you have any specific examples of Malibu JetProps or Meridian's with wrinkled wings? I have not heard of these. We all know there have been a number of in flight breakups of Malibu's ... but that problem for the most part went away with better pilot training.

I'm not Jason but I posted an example just above, here it is again http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 152&akey=1

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 13:50

Username Protected wrote:

It required a substantial amount of repair. Both wings were bent and twisted noticably, but never broken. Says something about the Beech design. Not sure what the outcome would've been in a jet-prop or meridian, or any other airplane for that matter. Hopefully nobody tries to find out.

Not trying to sound cranky, but it doesn't say anything about the Beech design. It reflects the property of aluminum to deform at a given load and fail at a load approximately 50% higher. All our planes have a design load limit with a 50% buffer before structural failure.

Presumably the Duke saw something between 3.8g and 6g.

Any pilot, any airplane, upon entering a thunderstorm should dramatically reduce power, lower the gear and get well below Va. Do that and you may get hail damage but shouldn't bend anything.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2013, 13:56

Username Protected wrote:

Jason - do you have any specific examples of Malibu JetProps or Meridian's with wrinkled wings?

Have not heard of it in a Jet prop. They're routinely flown over gross but gross is 4300. So people are flying them at 4800. The Meridian is close to 5100 and people are known to fly them over gross as well.

I can't cite an example of the Meridian, but the story comes up on a recurring basis without much interest on MMOPA. e.g. "I was doing a prebuy on NXXX and they found wrinkled wings" etc. It's neither rampant nor remarkable.

Piper Meridian