It's only April. Let's talk again in September.

My PC12 seats 11.

20's is the worst kind of weather? I just flew in this crap over Atlanta. Tops were about 7000'. I've flown all over the US and caribbean in the PC12. Have yet to be "in the weather".

Your experience is correct.

Your experience is correct.

I didn't just start flying. I know what the weather is like in September.

Do you know the specifics of that accident? Pilot error. He was in a climb.

What's your point anyways? Climbing into a Tstorm in a Conquest would yield a different result?

I wonder how I avoided storms for 5 years in my Tn Bo?

Do you know the specifics of that accident? Pilot error. He was in a climb.

What's your point anyways? Climbing into a Tstorm in a Conquest would yield a different result?

I wonder how I avoided storms for 5 years in my Tn Bo?

From what I can gather...he lost ~12k' in 30 seconds after he encountered the storm. He lost the last 10k' in the next minute. Short of flying directly into the worst part of a big thunderstorm in the heart of his normal cruise envelope (the 20's) what was his error? Given the decent rates in the NTSB report... He was along for the ride after hitting that storm.

Here's the preliminary report. http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 0607X54234

It appears he was in a minimum ROC climb to his assigned altitude, found an embedded thunderstorm and got slammed back down to the dirt in 1.5 min (thats about a 16,000 fpm ROD or, put another way, ~160 knots straight down) In the process, pieces got ripped off.

Yup. That's what I said.

The storm was on Nexrad. Easily avoidable. Has nothing to do with what type airplane he was flying. A Global would've come apart.

If he was in a climb when he hit the storm and all planes must climb through the 20's to get to the 30's then what difference does it make what plane he was flying? He flew into a big red t storm.

I flew with storms all around me yesterday. I flew away from the red.

Jason,

I think you may have missed my point. I'm not comparing a Conquest to a Pilatus. They both have the same problem of being stuck at altitudes with nasty weather, although the higher the better.

My point is a jet can go over, a piston can go under, a TP with all its capabilites has to be very careful on route selection.

A good example is a flight from Phoenix to Albuquerque in the summer time. The MEAs put you up high, you have military airspace north and south of the route, and weather ALWAYS builds at St Johns and can be very nasty. I listen to route twice a week. The jets are happy, the pistons are happy, the King Airs struggle.

They can't go low underneath, or VFR through the MOAs, and they can't get over. They can't divert north or south very far due to airspace.

Don't get me wrong, most turbines are a nice step up from what I fly. You've just got to be careful. I got trapped once as Tstorms built all around me in the PBaron. I started on top at 13k. Before I knew it the tops were through the 30s and surrounded me. I was hanging on at 25 knowing they were full of ice.

I found a hole and bailed out, but I am still amazed at how fast they built up. There was nothing I could do and none of it was on radar when I departed. The experience was sobering.

This part of the discussion is absolutely none of my business...but I am gonna stick my nose in anyway.

In the deep South, TBoomers develop quickly, and fairly quickly go high...with often, the meat of them at 20K feet or so. However...

It has been my experience (and Jason's, I suspect) that in the mid-teens...and mid 20's, one can stay out of the weather and pick one's way around the towering build-ups. I'm with Jason...anyone who flys (while in cloud) into red areas is cruising for a bruising. Or worse.

However, operationally, one CAN avoid the buildups with a bit of altitude selection and careful picking around.

The only "disadvantage" the PC12 has over the turbonormalized Bo is that in the Bo (or Baron) one can stay below the cloud bases in an economical manner. However, it is a rare day you can't find a level out of the clouds in the low 20's high teens and pick around.

Of course all you old freight-dogs who absolutely positively had to get there with one engine, wing held on with 100 mile-an-hour tape and cojones the size of cannon balls are far more skilled than naifs like Jason and I. Someday we'll be hoary old experts too! If we live so long...

Jim

Sort of like little sports cars?

I'm not comparing the Conquest to the Pilatus either.

How far is Phoenix to Albuquerque? You really going to climb into the 40's for that flight?

My whole point on this subject was to bash "little jets". Basically, anything smaller than a CJ2+. The little jets are not certified to 41K'.

Most CB's in the SE go over 50k'. So what jet is going to beat that anyways? Look, I've been flying a while too and have somehow managed to stay out of weather's way in every plane I've owned. I'm not agreeing with you that "now that I have a PC12, weather is a bigger problem than it was before".

Sort of like little sports cars?