BeechTalk - BT - Considering buying a C177 (Cardinal)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 09:47

John,

I think it's a wonderful idea. :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 09:52

Username Protected wrote:

Does anybody know if the Cardinal is certified for spins? That's one of the things I really like about the 172. I know its no longer a requirement for a PPL but all of my students get spin training as a part of my requirements - I figure if you can get comfortable with spins then something like a power-on stall is pretty simple.

Had a family meeting last night about buying a trainer and teaching my daughter to fly. We did the math and getting her to CFI (even with me teaching and us owning a plane) and the cost will be north of $30K. That's a good part of a college education and not an investment we can take lightly.

Although I'm a very proud dad, I must confess that I really don't want my daughter to be an airline pilot. I was one and she is way smarter than me. It was a pretty good job when I worked there (even though I worked for TWA in the rough years) but the job has gone downhill since then.

My hopes is that she will get a job as a CFI to support herself through college. If she can make $25/flight hr, it usually works out to half of that ($12/hr) for the hours she would put in and that's probably as good as Starbucks or McDonald's would pay and a hell of a lot better experience.

Flying and teaching flying would be a great start for a young person - the confidence to face all the challenges of life is already build into anybody that has succeeded in this path. (guess I'm talking myself into the decision....)

My wife thinks it is gene passed on to the daughter by her father.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 10:00

I shopped Cardinals for a long, long time before buying my Bo.

1. Be wary of any Cardinals that appear to be good deals. The market has allowed a very high valuation for these planes, largely due to a dedicated community. As an example, you are unlikely to find a quality C177 FG with upgraded (430) navcom AND a decent AP for less than 69k. Why? People are willing to pay that much.

2. As mentioned earlier, the first Cardinals had a different, narrower wing. CFO has some great, publicly available info here. http://www.cardinalflyers.com/prep/specs/_specs.php

3. Guy Maher can provide buying assistance, he is a Cardinal guru. http://www.laniermedia.com/about-lanier ... ssistance/

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 10:23

Hold on to the door in the wind--- They are large and cause big time damage if left to fly in the breeze!
Early ones as mentioned had a smallish elevator that you ran out in the flare, dumping the nose- just a training issue.
Perhaps consider a Cessna 175 (skylark) with 180 conversion--- they fly great and can be had for 40 k or less.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 12:17

Spins: No.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 12:51

Username Protected wrote:

I shopped Cardinals for a long, long time before buying my Bo.

1. Be wary of any Cardinals that appear to be good deals. The market has allowed a very high valuation for these planes, largely due to a dedicated community. As an example, you are unlikely to find a quality C177 FG with upgraded (430) navcom AND a decent AP for less than 69k. Why? People are willing to pay that much.

This. 182s hold their value because of their utility. 177s have a following, and nice examples have outlier prices.

Saw this one at SnF last year. It was really nice. New interior, new avionics, new paint, new glass, the whole smash....

And the paint was really, really cool....

Best,
Rich

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 14:35

Username Protected wrote:

Hold on to the door in the wind--- They are large and cause big time damage if left to fly in the breeze!
Early ones as mentioned had a smallish elevator that you ran out in the flare, dumping the nose- just a training issue.
Perhaps consider a Cessna 175 (skylark) with 180 conversion--- they fly great and can be had for 40 k or less.

I had a C177A. The tail was the same size on all but Cessna paid to fix the early ones by adding the slots. No struts is nice but the plane sits lower than a 172/182 so if you're 6' or over you're always ducking. The best part of the plane is the ailerons. Phenomenal roll rate. Avoid the 150 HP models like the plague. Mine had 180 HP but a fixed pitch, you want a constant speed. Overall though I wouldn't get one. Get a 182 and you'll have yourself a plane you can find parts and upgrades for. Very limited market for Cardinals so hardly any mods out there for them.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 14:50

Username Protected wrote:

Spins: No.

I hate to tell you Spins YES. It's right in the POH.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 17:02

John,

I have a 10 page review of the Cessna 177 done by Aviation Consumer in 2003.
Send me a PM with your email if you're interested in the report.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 21:49

OK, based on some of the suggestions above, we started looking at 182's as well. I wonder if I should start a new thread and ask for opinions on them....

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 21:52

LOVE the C-182; probably one of the best airplanes Cessna has every produced. It is an excellent instrument platform, very stable, carries a good load, and has adequate power. I think you are on an improved track; JMHO! Good Hunting!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 21:59

A 182 is a great airplane. I've had two - a 1960 and a 2000. One of the few planes that held their value over the years. There's a great market for the 182. Easy to sell when you're ready.

Like Larry said, very stable and a true 4 person airplane.

I still miss mine, at times.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Apr 2013, 22:16

If she has her heart set on FedEx, I would look at getting her into the military.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Apr 2013, 10:42

Username Protected wrote:

If she has her heart set on FedEx, I would look at getting her into the military.

+1, I've heard they STRONGLY lean toward military pilots.
gary

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Apr 2013, 12:21

John, good to see you on BT. Didnt realize you were part of the fold.

There are still shares for sale in our local flying club for that C172.

Schedules are simple, and very rarely a conflict.

I have heard good things coming from a flight school in Tx called United Flight. They had a very good hire rate for the airlines, and fed-ex. Might be an option for you.

Good luck. Hope you get her figured out.

Come on by the shop some day. I'll buy lunch :bud:

Considering buying a C177 (Cardinal) - need advice!