Hi All,

I am a new member to the forum and I'm gathering information to see if a v-tail Bonanza can be a good plane for me. I have all of my time in Cessnas up till now...started in a 152, flew a 182 for a while, rented a 172 for a bit, and co-piloted a C-210 Turbo with my father-in-law...he was always PIC, but had me do all the work I've never really used GPS, although the 210 had a Loran.

I've heard that the V-tail Bonanza is a great plane, giving fairly good speed, while allowing for 4 seats and being fairly economical....hence the search for a Bonanza.

I'll be commuting from Paso Robles, CA (KPRB) to San Carlos, CA (KSQL) as my current contract for my work wants me on-site in the bay area Mon-Fri. Driving up on Monday, and staying away from home until Friday night is getting really old, really fast. So, I'm hoping to find something that goes at least 160 knots, and would like to be able to take the family on trips occasionally on the weekends too. We have a lot of family and friends in Sacramento, and with the 5 hour drive, we rarely have the energy to make the trip.

I was looking at a V-35TC (original factory turbo) for sale in Phoenix...needs an engine overhaul in about 350 hours, but is priced to account for that. Not sure if the Turbo is a good way to go...sounds like the maintenance can be more pricey over the long haul, and I wouldn't need the high altitude very often....just seems nice to have in case you need to do any high altitude flying and the extra power is nice to have for take off, etc.. Basically, most of my flying, for now, will probably be within California, with some Sierra Mountain flying occasionally (ie: Tahoe), and trips to Boise, where we have family also.

I'm trying to get something for $50K or so...

Another note: I've not been flying for the last 5 years, so I'm working on getting current and will need to get some lessons to get all the cobwebs out. Life just got in the way with some business problems, but I'm ready to jump in and do the work to get back into it, and would like to get an airplane and really use it often so that I can keep my skills up and enjoy doing something I really love.

Thanks in advance for all the advice, and I'm reading through all the forums to see what I can learn.

Happy Flying!

Scott

Scott, you will have to be VERY CAREFUL in shopping for a $50,000 Bonanza that you might expect to get in and start commuting with. Yes, the market is down, but that price range for a 35 series invites a project, not a reliable aircraft. Start by scanning the Peddler's Talk section here. Finding a plane that has been kept up and maintained is possible. Pilots lose their medicals every day, and if you can find a plane from one of them in good flying condition, that is your best bet. Avoid wheeler-dealers and
plane flippers... you don't want to buy a money pit, and without a good pre-buy inspection, that is more probable than possible.

I would not buy a turbo on that budget.

Welcome to BT! I agree with Paul, a turbo in that price range is probably one that will costs substantially more once you get it There is a H model with the 550 conversion FS in the peddlers area now that Tony has for sale. With that conversion it will most certainly be a fast bird! And it is listed in the price range you are looking for. Just be careful, I dont know your size, family size, and family body sizes. In my V tail I am at the envelope with 3 adults and full fuel, so plan accordingly. V Tails are mini fighter jets, once you fly one you will be hooked!

Hey Scott,

I'm just starting a hunt for a V tail and I have put together a spreadsheet with some information about the different models. Link is below - you may find it helpful in your search.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmnBoRSdUe2ddGIyT2otRU5UZmtMYzRWZGptUzlQaVE&hl=en_US

I love the early small 3rd window models. Price is normally pretty cheap, the performance isn't a S35 but not that far from it and for me they are the nicest looking. The downside is the useful load, balance and shortage of bragging rights against 520/550's.

Simon

No reason for a turbo unless you are going to fly out of hot and high fields or need to get into the flight levels. My 1969 V35A with IO-520 has a POH service ceiling of 17,000 at full gross weight. No oxygen, so I won't be going over 14,000 anyway. There are few parts of the country that I can't go at 14,000 ft.

I agree with all the other comments - get a good one from the start, no projects unless you have a bigger budget.

It's much cheaper to buy a Bonanza for $150K than to buy one for $50K.

It's VERY important to get one that has been maintained meticulously, otherwise it will cost a fortune to get right.

Thanks all for the advice. Maybe this isn't the right thread for keeping this conversation going, but I'd like to hear the data behind the opinions. For example, how much more does a Turbo engine overhaul cost compared to a NA engine? Is it twice as much, or $500 more. Are there other costs like overhauling the turbocharger on a TBO schedule as well?

When looking for a Bonanza, what are the common "issues or problems" (ie: gotchas) that I should look out for in a maintenance history. Are there particular systems that tend to go bad and are costly to replace, or is it just generally everything (ie: anything could be an issue if not properly maintained)? Usually every piece of equipment has a few weak spots that are common....

Are there folks out there that will help with a pre-buy inspection? Someone that will give it a good thorough lookover and provide a report with estimated costs for maintenance?

What kind of instrumentation is recommended? I read some posts on TIS that made it clear that TIS is of great importance... Obviously, GPS is a must, and auto-pilot tied into GPS would be awesome...

Thanks for any details...

Insert sound of deep breath here.... Volumes have been written on the subject of Bonanzas, you might start with going to the American Bonanza Society website and shopping for a Larry Ball book. Heck, join the ABS for the $60, and start reading the monthly magazine. Your first question was turbo charged vs NA engines. Factory TC was on some rare 470s, but most are TSIO520 Continentals. It takes a skilled and careful pilot, with a good electronic data monitor to keep from frying these engines. Most are fried from simple mistakes that would not hurt NA engines. I have not heard of TC 520 making TBO, most requiring top overhauls after a few hundred hours. A Turbo Normalized engine is an entirely different animal, is new technology, costs almost $60,000 for the conversion. You are not going to find one for $50,000. TC Continentals have an early demise in other brands of aircraft as well, it is not just a Bonanza thing. Unless you lived in the mountains, and were willing to undergo special training, I suggest you forget about factory TC engines. If your budget is a hard $50,000, I would raise my engine sights up to these three....IO-470, IO-520, or IO-550, all normally aspirated. These engines cost about $29,000 to $34,000 to replace as Remans, or good overhaul(see Western Airmotive, sponsor of this site). Look for an engine with lower, or mid time hours. Look for good propellers with similar hours, and without troublesome ADs. Confine your search to Bonanzas from J-35 to V-35B. Look for a decent autopilot, a GPS, avionics in the late 20th century. You want a well maintained, corrosion free airframe, good glass, and decent enough paint to have protected the metalwork. Learn how to be patient in reading logbooks, so you can identify a good, well kept set, and avoid the shoebox full of junk with questionable entry variety. People on this site, like Paul McCracken, do pre-buy inspections, charge about 10 hours to do them, because it takes that amount of time, and is absolutely worth it. I do pre-buy inspections, using the form available from ABS. You have asked for information that takes years to accumulate, usually with some hard learned lessons along the way. Beechcraft Bonanza is the best certificated single engine airplane ever built, and if you find an owner with one he has respected, and kept up, with halfway modern instrument panel, then welcome to the Beech owners group.
Others have posted advice for you to look in Peddler's talk. That is a very good place to start, and there you can make your own posting, WTB (want to buy) a good solid
35 series Beech, budget $50,000. EDIT:Paul McCracken is said to be relocating to Southern CA. Find his name on a member search, and send him a PM( private mail )request regarding a pre-buy. He will know about airplanes now in the marketplace worth your consideration. Here is one to look at: http://oneofakindforsale.com

Agree with everything Larry says. I just bought my V35A in March. I started out looking for a late 70's A36, planning to buy one and sell 50%, expecting to pay $160k or so. So my out-of-pocket expense would be $80k.

Paul McCracken was my A&P already for my Beech Sundowner (Now For Sale!). I had no idea he was so well regarded on these sites. He suggested that I join this discussion board, which I did. Within DAYS I found a pristine V35A at Addison airport, just down the road.

I hired Paul to do the pre-buy. It was probably superfluous, as the airplane was obviously in great shape, but it gave me confidence that it wasn't a heap of problems hidden under a coat of fresh paint. 180 hrs on the top end, IFR GPS and coupled a/p, and paint less than 2 years old. 165kts on 12.5 gall/hr LOP. And the best part - $93k. I could buy it and not have to share.....

My recommendation is the same as Larry's. Get a good one, older but in great shape. Paul M also will do searches under contract, I believe there are others on this board too. You might think about having a larger purchase budget and selling half, as I was going to do. $100k would get a very nice 70's V35B.

Thanks again for the info and for your patience with me...I'm just trying to get as much information as I can so that I can make an informed decision, which is something I think you all recommend. Forgive me for my naitivity...

The spreadsheet is awesome...thanks for that Simon...that really helps to see the different characteristics for the different models.

I ordered two Bonanza books on Friday from Amazon, while I was waiting for my membership to the forum to be approved....but they weren't Prime-able, so they might arrive by the end of this week or sometime next week.
- They Called Me Mr. Bonanza, by Larry A. Ball
- Those Incomparable Bonanzas, Larry A. Ball

Thanks for the great information Larry. I had some experience flying with my father-in-law in his Turbo Cessna 210, and it's just amazing how much faster you can get places when you have a 200 mph plane...so I was kind of fixated on the possibility of having that capability on a plane that looked pretty clean for $50K...seemed too good to be true...probably is! We used to travel from Cameron Park (near Sacramento) to Boise, ID in 3 hours in the 210 (2:45 with tailwind...3:15 with headwind), while my brother in law took 4 hours in the 182 at the same time....I think the 182 even used more fuel for the trip. Anyway...sounds like they can defintely be more expensive and troublesome, so I'll have to settle for 175-180 mph on my budget....still not bad....

I'll post in the Peddler's forum in a bit...once I figure out if I can really do it financially and have done some more homework.

Thanks,
Scott

I think you are getting some great advice here, so this comment might be the one poor/wacky advice that you get, so take with caution. In my case, I was trying to find a plane I could afford and not share which took me into the territory that you are looking at....an older V-Tail. I found a very good 1954 V35 E model. It had very low airframe hours and a low time 225HP engine. I specifically looked at the 225HP engines because I AM CHEAP ! The bigger the engine, the faster it goes, but the heavier the fuel burn. I know there is a trade off on GPH vs range over that hour. The 185HP was too slow with basically the same fuel burn...the larger engines burn 17 GPH and can lean down to around 12-13 GPH and cruise at 145-160 ish knots. My bird cruises at around 135 knots and burns around 8-9GPH. That gives me some where around 30-35 MPG (as best I can figure). So I was able to buy a plane I could afford (about the price of a car) and get the fuel economy that I could afford to operate with (I have a limited budget for transportation cost). Just a useless factoid that was important to me in my purchase consideration.

Don't be afraid of the older Bo's. Just know what you are getting into.

I have a J and love it. But to be fair, I have 140 + into it. Money well spent in my book.

Others may have a different view.

Bo's are a lifestyle, not an airplane.

If you want to fly (reasonably) cheap and (reasonably) carefree, get a Piper Cherokee 180.

If you want a great airplane that will reward the love that you give it, get a Bo.

Just remember, a pure-bread horse needs lots of care too.

The mule does not.

So, do you want a mule or a pure-bread?

Chris, I think your math is a bit out - 135kts is about 155mph. 155/8 is 19.4 mpg.

With the IO520 in my V35A, at 165kts I can lean down to 12.5 gall/hr, or 190 mph at 15.2 mpg. Bringing it back to 19" and 2100 RPM, I can get about 16 mpg at 135 kts (155 mph). Still not bad, but more Hummer-like than Honda-like.

You could also get a clean Beech C24 Sierra for $50k with no problem. 200HP, 4 seats, and Beech roominess and quality. It's basically a retractable Sundowner, with more HP, constant speed prop, bigger baggage door and TWO entry doors (an very nice feature of the Musketeer/Sundowner/Sierra series). A little less expensive to operate, and somewhat slower, but they will still do 135 kts at 8 or 9 gall/hr, and top out around 150 kts and 12 or 13 gall/hr. I looked real hard at those before deciding to go up to an older, but faster Bonanza.