I'd love to know their carriers.

I'd love to know their carriers.

hahaha, Phil it's the carriers I mentioned in response to your question before (look back a couple of pages) with an excess policy issued by these folks: http://www.mengerus.com/ (keep in mind this is a business website for brokers, the folks shopping for the best deal on your behalf)

Again, older aircraft may not be as easy to insure at higher limits, it all depends. Every risk is underwritten specifically to the pilot/aircraft/mission.

And again, aircraft associated with fleets can leverage the premium volume to obtain higher limits, depending on many other factors as well.

I actually researched South Carolina law, and the homicide statutues are very open. In other words, the elements of the crime are not all that specific as to what must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

A jury of peers, which would be devoid of pilots, would be making the determination of whether this was criminal negligence. Worse, the decision to bring charges, would be likely be made by a non-aviating prosecutor. Once you head down that slippery slope, it becomes a real threat. Is this defensible, yes, but I would just as soon see the initial decision to prosecute be made by somebody other than a non-aviator.

Remember the Cherokee into the building in Texas? What happened? Savvy police chief who dispelled a lot of wrong stuff. We as pilots could hope for as much here.

Being a lawyer and a pilot are a lot of like. It is a priviledge and not everybody can do it. I try to approach both in the same fashion.

Nice "Heisman"

So what do you really think?

Lets say you get on an airliner and it plows into a school and kills many...maybe you should have not used the airline because doing so gives them justification to fly and create such risk? Arnt you culpable?
How is risk, when managed, different then driving a truck, bungee jumping, riding amusment park rides or driving a CAR?
And what endeavor has such a system of checks and balances, intensive training and is monitored by such a governing body, and in our case, has such well designed and thought out equipment? The weak link is of course the human element.
Flying around with a s**tload of anxiety about the what ifs is counter productive and what happened to fun? Anxiety/fun= oxymoron.
I need to get going but the I have a LOT to say about the insurance side of this and the one thing that triggered my response last night was your thought about how a Baron would change or lessen "the chance of killing someone on the ground". I cant believe someone else didnt jump in there???? Thats the "dangerous" part of the equation you laid out. Maybe somebody else will explain why....Im a 65 year old single dad (this week) and have teenaged girls to get to school. WTF????

This is probably no more than anyone else hear has already read.....


"The authorities revealed later that the plane was headed to Virginia and it started its journey from Orlando. The route was over the Atlantic.

The Lancair IV-P aircraft reportedly encountered problems with its engine on the way. The pilot tried his level best to make the emergency landing at the Hilton Head airport but could not do so owing to oil leakage. The oil covered the windshield of the plane and hence the pilot almost could not see anything. They pilot could have died but the jogger was unfortunate enough to be hit by the plane. The pilot and one passenger did not receive any injury after making the emergency landing as the sources have confirmed."


Although this doesn't answer all the questions I have it did answer a few. As Jason pointed out early on in the thread, the guy was flying high.

As for the thing slinging oil, I can absolutely believe it and relate to it. I too have had to put one down with oil all over the windshield, it's definitely unnerving, and my engine was still running with the spinner attached.

I do wonder the following though......

How many hours does this guy have?
How experienced is he really and how much "flight safety" type training has he had?
Does he have 10 to 20 years of experience, or does he have 1 year 10 to 20 times?
How many times has he flown this particular route?
Had he ever been trained, or taken the time to think about where he'd put er down?
(I think about this all the time, I fly this route every 2 to 3 weeks)
Could he and his passenger even swim? This might explain not landing in the water.
Did they carry any flotation equipment with them?
(I don't, I usually don't go too far away from the shore line, probably not a good idea)
Was the passenger helping or were they freaking out?
How hard is it to glide a Lancair IVP without the propeller? CG, etc...
HXD is 4300' by 100', not bad but it looks awful small compared to most of the strips I fly into, especially under emergency circumstances.


This has been quite an interesting thread. Having been in on a couple of these heated debates myself, it's almost amusing. Not that someone losing his life is amusing, that is a tragedy.

The closing comments that come to my mind are these.

Would I have done the same thing this guy did if I were flying that plane? No, probably not. I don't think I would have ever tried landing @ HXD at all, small strip surrounded by trees (at least it looks that way when I'm flying over it @ 8000' to 12000' and this guy was over 15000' initially).
There's plenty of beach to put it down north or south of there.
And as Jason repeatedly pointed out, Billions and Billions of square miles of ocean

Whether you guys realize it or not, this entire thread with all of it's twists and turns, has been studied. (figuratively of course, not literally) I'm talking about the interplay between people trying to get their point across. We as a society are, quite frankly shitty listeners. We listen to the other guy until he "shuts up" or just long enough so we can say what we think. A study recently pointed out that over 80% of Americans don't feel "validated" by their fellow human beings. Meaning that they don't feel like the others that they interact with truly listen with the intent to "understand" them. Not necessarily agree with them, but truly understand them. Stephen Covey, author of 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, thought so much of this principle that he identified it as the 2nd habit... "Seek first to understand, then to be understood"

The reason I keep coming back to this site and sitting a spell are numerous. But primarily it's because of the wide cast of characters we have here and their "life stories". For the most part we all march to the beat of our own drums. Many self made, self reliant individuals. We have people with PhD's and folks that didn't finish High School. Folks that have flown in the ultimate of extreme circumstances, military war time ops, to guys that haven't even taken their PPL check ride. We all share at least a couple of things though... Our love of flight and our affinity of Beech.

The thing that disappoints me though, is the seemingly immediate reaction of some when their opinion is not agreed with or challenged. The vitriolic outburst and childish name calling (I know, I've been accused of that myself) are unbecoming. Although many of us have been here @ our little club for some time now, others have not. I'm not suggesting that anyone kowtow or roll over and take a sucker punch. I am, however, suggesting that before you denigrate someone for having the audacity to disagree with you, you take a second to consider their viewpoint.

I'm no stranger to controversy, and like others I've had my fair share of adversity over the years. I have a real tough time though "suffering" fools, bullies, cheats or liars. I love a spirited debate, especially when well thought out and educated reasoning is offered. I would rather go toe to toe with an adversary any day of the week vs a spineless puss that has neither the courage nor the inclination to speak their convictions directly.

The last thing I would ask all those here who seemingly always get their feathers ruffled and lash out at others is this...... Would you say what you're about to my or others faces what you're about to "submit", or would you possibly, just maybe, be a little more civil and respectful. If you wouldn't, then don't. If you are, however, like the Chihuahua that feels safe and sound sitting behind your fence talking smack to the Rottweiler, you might want to check from time to time to make sure your master hasn't left the gate open.

As, always, ymmv.

blue skies

How so?

I don't see it.

Thanks Alejandro, that's what I was looking for, the underwriters of the secondary policy.

Thanks Alejandro, that's what I was looking for, the underwriters of the secondary policy.

I don't bungee jump. It's an "un-necessary" risk.

I don't ride motorcycles. It's an "un-necessary" risk.

I don't skydive. DITTO

Flying commercial is not an "un-necessary" risk.

Driving my car to work every day is not an "un-necessary" risk.

I think you should. Its OK to quit flying if you are not up to it emotionally. You would be doing your family and the rest of us a favor.

If this incident eats at you that much, you do not belong as PIC. Nor do I want to share airspace with you, because you may be hazardous to my health and that of my passengers. I sure would not ride right seat with you.

You come across this blog as being way to emotional, always seeking to get in the last word, and responding to every post you perceive as a personal slight to you. Yet at the same time you come across (at least to me) as cocky and so self assured that you *know* you would make a different (better?) decision under the same circumstances. Armed with 20/20 hindsight of course. Maybe you are different in person. All I know about you is what you write here.

Perhaps I am wrong, but my perspective is that your flying career is somewhat limited and inexperienced, and that you have never had to make a real life and death decision while PIC. I think your perspective would change had you joined our "club".

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but there seems to be a body of more experienced pilots here who would respectfully disagree.

Whatever decision you make, I am sure it will be the right one for you and your family.

I think you should. Its OK to quit flying if you are not up to it emotionally. You would be doing your family and the rest of us a favor.

If this incident eats at you that much, you do not belong as PIC. Nor do I want to share airspace with you, because you may be hazardous to my health and that of my passengers. I sure would not ride right seat with you.

You come across this blog as being way to emotional, always seeking to get in the last word, and responding to every post you perceive as a personal slight to you. Yet at the same time you come across (at least to me) as cocky and so self assured that you *know* you would make a different (better?) decision under the same circumstances. Armed with 20/20 hindsight of course. Maybe you are different in person. All I know about you is what you write here.

Perhaps I am wrong, but my perspective is that your flying career is somewhat limited and inexperienced, and that you have never had to make a real life and death decision while PIC. I think your perspective would change had you joined our "club".

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but there seems to be a body of more experienced pilots here who would respectfully disagree.

Whatever decision you make, I am sure it will be the right one for you and your family.

Dino,

Did not "quote you" so as not to take up space and maybe get this thread to 20 pages (what's the thread page record at BT???), but I enjoyed your post from a few minutes ago.