BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 00:43

My whole point with the beach landing in this instance is that the pilot chose the beach on Hilton Head Island. It's outrageously crowded. There is not one foot of that beach that does not have a high rise on it. Had he chosen a deserted beach and still hit a guy, I would agree with it being a total accident that someone happened to be there.

I know i said adios but this thing has a life of its own and I still see things being said that miss the mark by a mile.
That pilot, did NOT choose "the beach on Hilton Head Island". IT CHOSE HIM.
You dont have a bunch of multiple choices when an emergency like this happens. You "chose" what is in front of you. In this case, below and looking out the side window.
Was he blind? Ill bet on it. If he had seen the guy he would have probably been able to avoid him. He would have tried to at least. That's human nature. And if he had died doing it you guys would be erecting statues to the guy not burying him.
You set a course of action and you follow through with it. I would have done the exact same thing.
I hope that pilot could get a chance to read this entire thread. Geez, Id love to hear his input. Whoa!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 00:44

Username Protected wrote:

I'm with you all the way Jason.

HOWEVER, flying IS safer than driving and, without question, riding a motorcycle :bugeye:

John and Martha King would disagree. They have correctly pointed out that GA flying is NOT as safe as driving in a car and pilots who spread this myth do a disservice to potential passengers and pilots alike.

Though there is no data, of which I am aware, that points to how far up the ladder flying becomes as safe as driving I can guess. If you have an instrument rating, don't fly on business and are very willing to slide departure times, even on return legs, you are probably as safe as a car.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 00:48

/\ the entire comparison is beyond subjective. And that includes my own post above, I'm pretty sure there are less accidents per flight than accidents per car trip. But that is subjective too because they are two entirely different mediums with transportation being about the only common link.

This thread is getting old!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 01:04

Username Protected wrote:

/\ I'm pretty sure there are less accidents per flight than accidents per car trip.

If you think about how many trips by car there are every day (just look down at an interstate the next time you are flying) v.s. the relatively few in GA airplanes I believe you will re-assess your prior assertion.

Just ask yourself; as much as you fly how many times do you turn the ignition in your car versus your plane.

Quote:

This thread is getting old!

I disagree.

A few more threads with some passion and well thought out debate will be nothing but good for Beechtalk. As long as civility remains and personal insults are left out all that is left is interesting discourse.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 01:07

Good counterpoints.

I still think GA is safer than driving.

I also like the stimulating part of the thread and I agree that the insults were predictably not constructive.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 01:09

Per passenger-mile, GA is more dangerous than driving a car.

The risk to kill someone else (outside of your own vehicle) otoh is considerably higher in a car. The guy with the plane who killed the jogger is the equivalent of someone swerving to avoid a head-on collision who hits an uninvolved pedestrian in the process.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 01:15

Quote:

Look, I carry a gun. Break in my house, I'll kill you. I have no fear in killing another human being who threatens me or my family. So, I'm not a *** about "life".

I've been seriously re-thinking my flying career over the past 6 months and this thread really hits home for me.

This pilot killed a guy doing something I love to do and do all the time. Flying is 100% a luxury. It's fun. I'm not afraid of killing myself flying. But I'm scared to death of killing an innocent bystander. Why? because I couldn't live with myself if I did. I don't know how this pilot will deal with what has transpired. I would imagine it is something that will haunt him the rest of his life.

When I started flying I was under the impression it was "safer than driving". Through all my conversations here on BT I'm learning it's about as dangerous as riding a motorcycle. I don't ride motorcycles because I have too many people counting on me. At least on a motorcycle I'll probably only kill myself. In my airplane I can kill my passengers and people on the ground and subject my business which a lot of people rely on to litigation. Am I totally insane?

Now I'm shopping $5 million insurance policies to hedge myself a bit but I know it's not enough.

Like someone said earlier in this thread in response to my "I'm never flying again" joke we always throw around here. We all say it and it's funny but we're all thinking it too.

Don't act like flying is safe all the while rocking "minimum insurance coverage" (I stole that from Jim Cionntea). It's a careless and irresponsible thing to do.

I'm shopping Barons. Not because I think they're safer but because it leaves me with less chance of killing someone on the ground.

After reading this I have concluded that you need to sell whatever you have and buy that motorcycle. Your perceptions are skewed and they are dangerous. You have no business being in airplane. How did you get this far?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 01:18

Username Protected wrote:

After reading this I have concluded that you need to sell whatever you have and buy that motorcycle. Your perceptions are skewed and they are dangerous. You have no business being in airplane. How did you get this far?

How so?

I don't see it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 01:29

Getting old again

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 01:42

Username Protected wrote:

After reading this I have concluded that you need to sell whatever you have and buy that motorcycle. Your perceptions are skewed and they are dangerous. You have no business being in airplane. How did you get this far?

How so?

I don't see it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 03:10

Username Protected wrote:

After reading this I have concluded that you need to sell whatever you have and buy that motorcycle. Your perceptions are skewed and they are dangerous. You have no business being in airplane. How did you get this far?

Couldn’t disagree more. What he writes about is relevant risks that most pilots reflect about once in a while. And by thinking through them, we may take better decisions should we ever be in that same situation.

Jason, this works for me: As long as I do not spend my life in the sofa, regardless of what I do, there will always be a risk of me getting hurt/killed and/or me hurting/killing somebody else.

To stop doing things would IMHO not elinminate them. Those incidents tend to show up when one least expects it and often in low risk situations where one didn’t recognice a risk at all.

If I do not want to sign myself out of the society I have to accept these risks.

Therefore: I do my best. I try my very best to keep my passengers, other pilots, other people and myself safe. That is really all I can do, and the rest I leave to faith.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 07:17

Username Protected wrote:

That pilot, did NOT choose "the beach on Hilton Head Island". IT CHOSE HIM.
You dont have a bunch of multiple choices when an emergency like this happens. You "chose" what is in front of you.

Um, THE OCEAN IS RIGHT THERE TOO!!!!

Jesus man. Why must I keep saying it?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 07:20

Username Protected wrote:

The information is there in black and white.....I figured it out. You should be able to. Pointless to take it anywhere from there. My intent was not to be unkind. Just point out what to me was obvious. This occupation is not for everyone. There were times in my flying life that I questioned my sanity. But it IS my life and like life you deal with it and move forward.

In the case of the thread, it's not just YOUR LIFE. How much insurance do you carry?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 07:28

This thread has had some interesting twists and turns. I think flying is safer, but it is substantially less forgiving of errors in judgment or execution.

As for dwelling on accidents, which become focused on here, I investigated/litigated many accidents, and think I have learned a great deal from all of them.

This one is as bizarre as any I have seen, in what I view as almost lightning or lottery like chances of tagging a guy on the beach. No doubt, a very sad outcome.

When I fly it is all about me. I decide if I think this flight is a good idea for all the circumstances I can fathom, including how I feel, how the weather looks, where I am going and the "outs" along the way. I figure if I do a good job, whoever is with me will get there too.

In the olden days, I used to leave Morristown Airport, and fly direct to Newark at 1,400 feet, and then to the Statute, in a rented airplane. I have no reason not to do that now, and I do not think if something I could not anticpate causes me to land in a neighborhood, that I should face criminal charges.

However, if it is something I disregared, I would feel differently.

Nobody knows why the prop went away, but Kelly McBride had a similiar problem, over the course of several hours. He paid attention to it, and it still almost got him. How much attention did this guy give to the oil thing? Did he say I don't want to fix it on the road? The problem with either question is, assuming similiar failure, how similiar are failures of that nature?

Often, no easy answers, mostly more questions, and I am flying again.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Mar 2010, 07:44

Username Protected wrote:

I do not think if something I could not anticipate causes me to land in a neighborhood, that I should face criminal charges.

I spent a week at FlightSafety last year. At no point did any instructor tell me not to anticipate some sort of mechanical failure.

However, this thread is not about "is flying safer than driving". It's about this guy who landed on the beach and killed someone.

As a lawyer, what's your take?

Turbine Lancair prop comes off