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 Post subject: Parachutes
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2010, 21:05 
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Ok. Laugh at me now. Ha...ha. But I'm thinking. I have a 48 year old airplane. I have an inflight fire. I open the door and jump out. What about having a personal parachute in the plane? I'm going to get some aerobatic training anyway, why not?

Anyone have a parachute in their plane?

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Brett Miller

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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2010, 21:19 
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Location: Fort Worth, TX (KFTW)
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Hahahahaha (just kidding :peace: )

But all kidding aside, have you ever tried to push the door open more than a couple inches while in flight?


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2010, 21:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
Ok. Laugh at me now. Ha...ha. But I'm thinking. I have a 48 year old airplane. I have an inflight fire. I open the door and jump out. What about having a personal parachute in the plane? I'm going to get some aerobatic training anyway, why not?

Anyone have a parachute in their plane?


No! The Chairman of my company's board asked why I didn't carry a parachute on board a number of years ago and I explained that my passengers probably wouldn't like me jumping out while they rode the plane down.

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[b]Minister of Ice[/b]
Family Motto: If you aren't scared, you're not having fun!


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2010, 05:05 
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Location: Mountain View, CA
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I have a few hundred sport jumps...

It is unclear to me that you would actually be able to get out of a plane that you would rather jump out of than land.

Years ago, one of the drop zones in Colorado suffered a mid-air collision between a jump plane and a commuter airliner. Not all of the jumpers were able to get out of the plane with a jump door. Hard to imagine getting out of a Bonanza in a spin.

Wearing a parachute could actually hinder things like reaching the fuel selector...

I have used the "you don't want me to be able to leave the airplane" line often when asked the parachute question.

By the way, my step father owns a parachute loft in Colorado that caters to acro pilots. Allen Silvers comes out every few years and gives a bail out class. I think that he does it elsewhere as well.

Have a great day.


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2010, 02:36 
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I had a CQ350 emergency seat back type chute that was traded to me for some time in my AA1 Yankee years ago. Wore it a few times, it was not that uncomfortable. Getting out of a yankee would be a lot easier then getting out of a bonanza. I have friends that have bailed out of a bonanza (pilot stayed). They said they had to slow to near stall to get the door open, then it was a squeez to get out. Not a real good idea. The CQ350 chute instructions claimed that the round chute would be fully open if you opened it at 500 feet. By the way, I heard those round chutes are ground pounders.


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2010, 08:55 
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As a (recovering) skydiving instructor, Master Parachute Rigger, and full time pilot, I really don't want to discourage anyone from having one, but you need to SERIOUSLY think about your egress plan if you do. I ALWAYS wear one for jump operations, or anytime that the door is off the airplane, but aside from that, it's often simply not practical. Oh, and watch that "500 foot" thing. Ya, a parachute should open in 500', but that's WAY different than deciding to exit a descending airplane @ 500', and having enough time to get anything done.


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2010, 09:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
Hahahahaha (just kidding :peace: )

But all kidding aside, have you ever tried to push the door open more than a couple inches while in flight?



My thoughts exactly :thumbup: (not the hahahaha part ;) )

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dino

"TRUTH is AUTHORITY..... Authority is not Truth"


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2010, 09:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
Ok. Laugh at me now. Ha...ha. But I'm thinking. I have a 48 year old airplane. I have an inflight fire. I open the door and jump out. What about having a personal parachute in the plane? I'm going to get some aerobatic training anyway, why not?

Anyone have a parachute in their plane?


No! The Chairman of my company's board asked why I didn't carry a parachute on board a number of years ago and I explained that my passengers probably wouldn't like me jumping out while they rode the plane down.




LMAO :coffee:
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dino

"TRUTH is AUTHORITY..... Authority is not Truth"


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2010, 09:41 
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In gliders that fly in thermals and particularly during competitions, it is common to wear parachutes. This is mainly to have an option after low-speed midair collisions that occasionally happen in that type of flying. The time and altitude required to get out of a glider has been tested, if you have less than 900m (3000ft) your odds of getting out are pretty slim.

That said, in our glider club we had an instance where student and instructor exited a glider somewhere below 500ft while the plane was inverted (lost its tail during a winch launch). Gravity and the geometry of that particular plane allowed them to eject through the canopy 'fighter style'. Both chutes opened right before impact and they walked away from the incident (so did the plane).


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 00:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
Ok. Laugh at me now. Ha...ha. But I'm thinking. I have a 48 year old airplane. I have an inflight fire. I open the door and jump out. What about having a personal parachute in the plane? I'm going to get some aerobatic training anyway, why not?

Anyone have a parachute in their plane?



I was a flight test engineer for the Navy for the first 13 yrs of my career. I can count on one hand the number of times we wore chutes in anything other than an ejection seat equipped aircraft (did not fly the T-34 much). Only times when we did things at very high altitudes in helos (19,600 in an H-60), aft rotor stalls in an H-46, or low g maneuvers in teetering rotor helos (most Bell products).

First recommendation: Smoke Hood. These are typically mylar coated plastic bags that go over your head. Some have filters, some are just a clear bag. The bag keeps what little clean O2 you've got by your nose and keeps the nasty stuff from your eyes. Smoke will quickly incapacitate you. A hood will give you time.

There's a fairly famous NASCAR aircraft crash caused by an electrical fire. Might be worth reading the accident report. Being able to see and breath, even used air would be an enourmous help.

The comment on planning the bail out is excellent. The Navy won't let you go flying (unless you're just a passenger) without practicing. We had to do all the same escape stuff, dunckers, etc as the pilots. Sit in the plane. Visualize a reference point to grab. Never let go until you get you next known reference. (You may have to go for more than one to get out. Practice the motions. This applies if you're on fire and trying to get out or ditched in the water and flipped over.

Getting out of a fixed wing aircraft that is still flying would be tough. Many acrobatic aircraft that I've flown in had a way to quickly release the front door hinge. I'm pretty sure one of the demo helo's had a similiar set up. Bye Bye door!

I know of two guys who have parachutted from helos. Lynn Friesner, Boeing Vertol chief test pilot, parachutted from a dying H-47. (He wore a chute in everything he flew.) (Lynn had the good luck to survive three aircraft destructions, including one of the first V-22 crashes).

The other guy was in an Army cobra at the Navy Test Pilot school (all rotary wing test pilots go to the Navy school). He was leaning down in the cockpit to set a control fixture. "It got very windy. I picked my head up and the top of the cockpit was gone, and so was the main rotor (mast bumping). I release the seat belt, pushed away from the aircraft and pulled the cord."

Why was that important? Because when you'll need the chute will be when things have gone horribly wrong. I think about the Cirrius that hit the glider tow line a few months ago. The video shows a smolding aircraft slowly parachutting its way to the ground. My first thought was that they would all be gone from smoke inhalation if they weren't kill in the impact. I think the smoke hood would would come before the chute.

Chutes aren't that uncomfortable once in the aircraft, assuming you can move the seat back. They are kind of odd to walk around with. They also need maintenace (90 days?).

If you want to think risk management, How high do you fly? If you're on fire, it can take 15 min to get down from 20K. That's an eternity in a smoke filled cockpit.

Hope this helps.

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Bob Steinbach
Leonardtown MD


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 Post subject: Re: Parachutes
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 02:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
Chutes aren't that uncomfortable once in the aircraft, assuming you can move the seat back. They are kind of odd to walk around with. They also need maintenace (90 days?).


Just got increased to 180 days.


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