If not for it being my family and my sisters family, I would agree with you!

Actually, sister in laws fam too.

I never carry more than 2 or 3 people for work trips. I actually fly solo probably 70% of the time. But the edge case trips matter.

For reference- chartering was quoted for a Palm Springs trip at thanksgiving. Den to PSP. 10 person plane was 60k. Doesn’t take too many of those to make those 20% of trips I carry people on really add to the budget. 40hrs of chartering at that rate is way more than I spend flying now! Plus, chartering is more difficult to delay when family you are giving a ride to decides leaving 3 hours later than originally planned makes more sense

At that price I'd just hire a pilot to fly the Piaggio back and forth for a second run to pick up the stragglers!

What's the real world, no wind - with a comfy reserve, range on the Piaggio, and what does the auxiliary tank add? That cabin is tough to beat.

Chip-

I would never advocate an overweight departure, but I have it on good authority that the 3+ still climbs like a dream, and will hit barber pole in cruise, departing with full fuel and all the seats (including belted lav) occupied on very warm summer day. *while the Citation X pilots roll their eyes*

I have the aux tank and would say 1250NM still air is comfy at full speed while 1641 is my record at LRC for 5.5 hrs.

In my Avanti I, using 600 lbs as reserve, which is more than an hour of cruise at altitude, ie more than regulatory reserves, I could make 1350 NM. That’s max cruise at FL390. I find 390 to be pretty usable unless it’s much above ISA+10. If you really want to stretch, climbing to FL410 about halfway would get you another 40-50 NM. Gets a little slower that high though so I’d be inclined likely to burn off some fuel before I tried to climb.

I have my flight plan profile tweaked to my real world experience - just a little more fuel than the strict book numbers, so this is pretty realistic.


The aux tank adds 400 lbs of fuel, which would be about another 275-300 nm of no-wind range. Where it’d really pay off would be into westbound headwinds one could consistently make east coast back to west coast with only one fuel stop.

But… that fuel tank is only available as an option from the factory in a new Evo, so very few exist (Tomasz is one of the lucky few!).

Outlier, not real world and wouldn’t do it again, but this happened with legal reserves. Including a 100nm diversion for weather + customs.

I don’t think the main concern is climb rate. The issue with being overweight is higher loads on the gear and airframe.

My Eagle II climbs at 4,000fpm at max gross. So if all I cared about was climb I could probably add a couple thousands pounds over gross.

Mike

My main mission is 1300nm exactly. I have never had to stop going east bound and can make it westbound with up to 25kts of headwind.

My flight planning and real world is a smidge better than what Jon put but that is partially bc I usually start at 5k in Denver.

I think the NBAA range on the Avanti 1 was 1425nm and that feels about right to me based on 1000 hours of flying it. The fl370 to fl390 step climb works very well when heavy. You probably could do 1500nm with LRC and FL410. I did Denver to Ft. Lauderdale twice with very light tailwinds and landed with 550lbs. I was at FL410 the entire time but it was also just me.

Man must be lost. Thought this was a CJ thread. Haha.

To be honest I have always wanted a p180 but after those numbers not so sure anymore.

Mike

I mean, someone asked a question about the Piaggio...


What range do you need? What do you get with your 501?

It’s OK. It can work for you and not me and that’s fine. My 501 has more range and faster. I don’t want to sit in a pilot’s seat for 5 hours.

I have for many years considered and thought about the P180. Now
I am looking for more range and payload than what I have. P180 isn’t for me. That’s OK. My current plane might not be for you. That’s OK also.

Mike

Easy to verify using ForeFlight. Just add another aircraft. It’s free.

I wish Foreflight had my plane in its performance profiles. The Eagle II is not in there.

Not trying to make this thread about the Eagle II or the P180

This was Chips spam thread on CJ3. Let’s respect his marketplace.

Mike