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30 Jun 2025, 10:56 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2025, 15:43 
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Joined: 09/02/08
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Aircraft: B58
Not a 7 but I owned a ACA Scout 8GCBC for a time, and I adored that plane. IFR certified with a Waas 430 and a 396 showing traffic and weather. The only hold I have ever flown was in that Scout, when a Mooney going into KERV forgot to close their flight plan. So sweet on the controls.

I sold it to a fellow at my airport, and he kept me on the insurance and insisted I stay current. For a few summers after that, he would meet me in KSAF and we would fly the Scout to Jackson Hole by way of Salt Lake, Twin Falls ID, Boise, Bend, and then west to the coast of Oregon where we would make our way north eventually ending up in the San Juan Islands. After hopping around the islands down to Jackson Hole.

Those ten hours days have been saved to permanent memory, and I loved traveling in that plane. The view out both sides is hard to beat.

Redo the seat cushions, do some yoga, take a trip. :D


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Last edited on 20 Jun 2025, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2025, 16:27 
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Joined: 08/24/18
Posts: 562
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Location: New Jersey, KVAY
Aircraft: Citabria
You mentioned the wing has metal spars. There are two routes to metal spars, if it is factory metal spa wing that has a big advantage because it comes with a gross weight increase. If it is the Millman metal spa wing, then there’s no gross weight increase and the useful load can be very low.. my 1999 GCaa has a useful load of 550 pounds based on a maximum gross weight of 1750. The plant with wood wings or the Millman metal spa have a gross wt of 1650.


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2025, 16:49 
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Joined: 05/14/19
Posts: 854
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Location: MCW
Aircraft: 7ECA
Username Protected wrote:
Is it me or are the models impossible to understand. Ie 7KCAB and 7GCAA. Is that hex decimal?


Citabria spelled backwards is "Airbatic" they had some fun with names as you will see further.

7 series are flat bottom wings.
8 series are semi symmetrical wings.

7ECA 115 HP flat bottom wing = Backwards "ACE"
7ECAA 150HP flat bottom wing = Backwards "A ACE"
7KCAB 150-180HP flat bottom wing, inverted fuel and oil = Backwards "BACK" meaning it can fly on it's back.

8KCAB 15-220hp semi symmetrical wings, inverted fuel and oil = Backwards "BACK".

7GCAA and 7CGBC... Welp, I got nothing.


I don't believe there is a 7ECAA, that would be the 7GCAA. My Citabria was born a 7ECA, but identifies as a 7GCAA with the bigger motor.

The 7CGBC is 150 hp with flaps.

What do the letters all mean...who knows. But I never thought about 7KCAB being BACK backwards. Makes as much sense as anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2025, 17:31 
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Joined: 04/18/21
Posts: 198
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Company: Dan Dicker
Location: Shirley, NY (KHWV)
Aircraft: 1963 Bonanza P35
Username Protected wrote:
You mentioned the wing has metal spars. There are two routes to metal spars, if it is factory metal spa wing that has a big advantage because it comes with a gross weight increase. If it is the Millman metal spa wing, then there’s no gross weight increase and the useful load can be very low.. my 1999 GCaa has a useful load of 550 pounds based on a maximum gross weight of 1750. The plant with wood wings or the Millman metal spa have a gross wt of 1650.


1650 gross wt. limit and 513 lb. UL.

Quite frankly, I'm kinda big and figured I'd be testing the limits (just a little) on the payload side. Can't fit much fuel under those numbers with both me and my son in it.......... my home field grass isn't short, so that's a plus (3500 ft.) Lot's of banner tow and glider action here. Figured I'd work up to it and see (slowly) what she'll really do while keeping the CG as centered as possible. CG doesn't move much as the gas burns off, according to my FF calculator.

Gotta imagine that these things are commonly flown (slightly) outside the W&B envelope, no? full tanks is 210 lbs. + a 240 lb. man doesn't leave much for camping gear, much less another person.


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2025, 18:28 
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Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1789
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Ron,
Your hammerhead and rolls look slightly more precise than mine :whistle:
Do you live near east coast? I could use a good CFI in my Citabria.

Flew mine to 17,500 once because I was hot.
Yes, I took o2.
Performed beautifully.
Only surprise was flooded to cutoff mixture travel was VERY little.

Flew her back to Charlotte from Wisconsin factory this past January.
Heat works great at 13,500
Saw ground speed of 161 knots once.

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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2025, 19:29 
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Joined: 11/29/10
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Location: KBJC - Broomfield, CO
Aircraft: PA46, 7GCAA
Username Protected wrote:
A Citabria is a really fun airplane. It is a blast to fly. I had a 7GCAA for 11 years before I sold it to a friend last fall. All I can think about is getting another one. If the fabric is good and the metal tube structure isn't rusty there isn't much else to worry about. Especially with a metal spar one.

Buy it, fly it and grin a lot.


As the guy that bought Matt's Citabria, I agree. These are such fun airplanes. Great for Friday afternoons or Sunday mornings. Just pull it out and go. Nothing like low and slow to remind you of the joy you felt when you first got your license. Also, fun for a little mild aerobatics when the feeling hits.


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 09:38 
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Joined: 10/29/11
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Location: Granbury, Texas
Aircraft: Psychobilly 180
Just bought a 2008 GCAA earlier this month. I have had a couple over the many years and it is a fun little airplane and fairly simple to maintain. I am replacing Psychobilly 180 with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 10:43 
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Joined: 11/12/18
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Aircraft: P35, Pitts S1S
Username Protected wrote:

I don't believe there is a 7ECAA, that would be the 7GCAA. My Citabria was born a 7ECA, but identifies as a 7GCAA with the bigger motor.

The 7CGBC is 150 hp with flaps.

What do the letters all mean...who knows. But I never thought about 7KCAB being BACK backwards. Makes as much sense as anything.


I didn't know of a 7CGBC, I only know of 7GCBC. I was told the "BC" and addition of flaps was supposed to be "Back Country" but again... Who really knows.

Here is a reference to an 7ECAA, page 30, "I was flying my Citabria 7ECAA in the Sportsman category." https://www.iac.org/files/magazines/SA-2018-05.pdf And another listing one for sale https://www.facebook.com/groups/8246920 ... 778417504/

I can't swear they exist, but when I was looking and found my 7ECA, I had test flown a plane that was marketed as and had "7ECAA" on the cowl.

So???? IDK.


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 10:56 
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Joined: 02/20/16
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Aircraft: E55, 7GCAA, Bell 206
There is no "7ECAA" on the type certificate: https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExterna ... 3D423.0001


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 11:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
There is no "7ECAA" on the type certificate: https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExterna ... 3D423.0001


Guess that settles that!


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 18:20 
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Joined: 05/14/19
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Location: MCW
Aircraft: 7ECA
Username Protected wrote:

I don't believe there is a 7ECAA, that would be the 7GCAA. My Citabria was born a 7ECA, but identifies as a 7GCAA with the bigger motor.

The 7CGBC is 150 hp with flaps.

What do the letters all mean...who knows. But I never thought about 7KCAB being BACK backwards. Makes as much sense as anything.


I didn't know of a 7CGBC, I only know of 7GCBC. I was told the "BC" and addition of flaps was supposed to be "Back Country" but again... Who really knows.



5 out of 4 pilots are dyslexic. 7GCBC is what I meant.

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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 18:42 
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The 7-series wing is more kinda-sorta-aerobatic than fully aerobatic (for that you'd want a Decathlon) and you don't have inverted fuel/oil systems but it's absolutely fine for casual Sunday loops and rolls.


7KCAB has inverted fuel and oil.

But undercambered wing is NOT happy inverted/neg G


After learning aerobatics in a 7GCAA with Christen oil system, I feel like the only benefit to a 7KCAB is that you could 4 point, slow roll, and hammerhead it without the engine stumble. I could imagine how atrocious a 7-series inverted nose attitude would be.
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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 19:58 
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Location: Lexington, KY
Aircraft: B95A Z526F SU26
Wood spar vs Metal

I would be cautious with an original wood spar with no documentation of rework to the ribs, adding ring shank nails, or rebuilding with new wood. Those wings are getting old and if it has been flown a lot, seen training, acro, or turbulence, then they should have been replaced at least once. By the 90's it was common to replace Citabria and Decathlon spars with new wood and use ring shank nails.

The ribs crack at the tops and bottoms of the main spar if it has been subjected to lots of snap rolls. You can literally hear the crack if you grab a Citabria/Decathlon leading edge and push up and pull down. This is written in Sport Aerobatics Tips and Tricks that was a couple books I think the IAC sold awhile back.

If you have a lot of hours on the fabric regardless of what spar material you have, I would do a good check of the ribs at the main spar connection. That is where they crack, nails walk out of wood wings, and you can see compression failure of the spar too.

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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 20:24 
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I have found 15+ cracked spars on various Aeroncas, Scouts, Decathalons and Citabrias. Sadly a lot of those were on recently recovered wings... Freshly "Inspected".

The spar butt end compression failures are very common. And they look just like the Service letter referenced in the AD describes.


Some were really horrible with new spars. They tried to slide the spar with no ply plates glued on into the wing without disassembling it. This can work but then the mechanic glued the plates on with what looked like 5 min epoxy and large visible voids.

Rusty cracked spar fittings are another problem. Look close where the flat plates are welded between the forward and back part of the spar wing strut attach fittings. The fittings are relatively cheap so really should be changed at each rebuild.

The biggest Decathlon problem is not Snap rolls. It is people diving into the Aerobatic box at redline airspeed and then using the stick full deflection to do the wing wag before starting the sequence. Watch Aerobatic practice sometime. It is a classic doublet of the stresses on the structure. This eventually cracks the aileron hinges on even the new wings.

on a Citabria though or Champ/ Chief you may feel some movement up and down on the aileron hinges because the rear spar twists. It seems to be normal but it is more noticeable with the wood spar wings.

If new wood spars are installed with the correct nails they can give many good years of service. But it seems all the ones I look at used have issues.

Also look close to see if the wing ribs have many sets of screw holes from various fabric installs weakening the flanges.

Age of Seatbelts and sun fading can also be an issue.

Factory service letters on their website.
https://www.americanchampionaircraft.co ... ce-letters


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 Post subject: Re: Any insights on a Citabria?
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2025, 21:09 
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Fair point Charlie. My comment intended to mention snap rolls exceeding the recommended entry speed, which is aerodynamically synonymous to the box entry "announcement" so I think we are on the same page.

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