Wow. We do have a friction lock on our PT6, but it is not needed. In fact with the new M6/700's with autothrottle, you are supposed to leave the friction lock at 0 resistance. I do just bump mine forward in preflight, to give me a little more resistance to being ham fisted, but not needed. Seems like this could be engineered out of the King Air. As I have mentioned before, the SETP's have no statistical chance of having as many power plant related crashes as the METP's. 1 is statistically safer than 2 in the cross country turboprop market, when looking just at engine related accidents, and by a large margin. A large part of that due to the record of the KA.

And if I am not mistaken, all of those were loss of thrust on the left engine. Maybe Pratt needs to take a look at all the left hand engines, they sure seem to fail a lot...
It doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure out these were all some type of power roll back on the left side. Tom Clements and his team identified PLM a long time ago, and he has been instrumental in educating pilots about this for many years now. If I am not mistaken, he is even mentioned in the accident report from Addison, and his theory is cited.
My guess is this crash profile will greatly decrease with the advent of auto thottles in the King Airs that all but eliminate the possibility of PLM.

Not sure it really matters why the KA has a higher likelihood of crashing after roll out. Fact is it happens more often. So it’s a real world higher risk.

The thread was about comparing the KA350 vs V. You can’t compare them without talking about safety differences.

The V flys higher, faster, and less chances of something going really wrong during departure.

I don’t see why you would pick the KA over the V from a safety and performance standpoint.

If the only reason you pick the KA is because of what other people think then that seems silly.

Mike

There is efficiency, environmental concerns (if you care along those lines), there is capability such as grass, gravel, heavily contaminated runways, and not sure how the 2 perform high and hot, but that could play as well. The optics are real. When I am talking to people of a different socioeconomic class, I feel much more comfortable when they ask telling them that I fly a little prop plane. Like a cessna? Yep. Even if it costs twice as much as a V.

And if I am not mistaken, all of those were loss of thrust on the left engine. Maybe Pratt needs to take a look at all the left hand engines, they sure seem to fail a lot...
It doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure out these were all some type of power roll back on the left side. Tom Clements and his team identified PLM a long time ago, and he has been instrumental in educating pilots about this for many years now. If I am not mistaken, he is even mentioned in the accident report from Addison, and his theory is cited.
My guess is this crash profile will greatly decrease with the advent of auto thottles in the King Airs that all but eliminate the possibility of PLM.

It’s a small data point, but my passengers have preferred the King Air’s cabin over the Citation’s. It’s taller and just overall more comfortable. The tube in the Citation is small and cramped for taller passengers.

The Citation also burns considerably more gas for an equivalent trip.

I’ve never flown a 300/350, but I fly C/E/F90s and 200s as well as everything in the CE500 fleet. Without a doubt the Citation has benefits in speed, altitude capability, and cabin quietness. The King Airs win on cabin comfort, ease of entry, short field operations, contaminated runways, and efficiency.

I own a -135 powered E90 and will occasionally lease a Citation for personal trips. I also fly contract in the other airframes.

I own a King Air for capital cost reasons and operational cost reasons. Also, my time just isn’t worth the price delta.

Robert

I have done that on a few and have yet to see one roll back at static. There is a video of one returning like a mouse trap though. I think the vibration from the takeoff roll makes a roll back much more likely. TC advocates momentarily removing one’s hand before going for the gear handle and of course accelerating a little bit more before retracting the gear.

No one really knows what actual VMC is with the auto feather disarmed but I suspect it is dangerously high in a 350.

I recommend altering the before engine start checklist to “function test and adjust both friction locks”. I would not be surprised if there are some flying with sheared friction lock rivets.

Also insist on a close visual inspection at next scheduled service (some disassembly required). People in the know are probably fiddling with them more and tightening them more than normal. That could actually cause the aluminum rivets to fatigue.

I have done that on a few and have yet to see one roll back at static. There is a video of one returning like a mouse trap though. I think the vibration from the takeoff roll makes a roll back much more likely. TC advocates momentarily removing one’s hand before going for the gear handle and of course accelerating a little bit more before retracting the gear.

No one really knows what actual VMC is with the auto feather disarmed but I suspect it is dangerously low in a 350.

I recommend altering the before engine start checklist to “function test and adjust both friction locks”. I would not be surprised if there are some flying with sheared friction lock rivets.

Also insist on a close visual inspection at next scheduled service (some disassembly required). People in the know are probably fiddling with them more and tightening them more than normal. That could actually cause the aluminum rivets to fatigue.

Total fatal accidents in King Airs since 1990.... 112

Total fatal accidents in Piaggios since 1990 ... 1

Tell me again who wins?

That wasn't an engine failure Mike. It was throttle regression and lack of auto feather.

Total fatalities in King Airs since 1990.... 258

Total fatals in Piaggio since 1990 ... 4

Tell me again who wins?

Well I can assure you it's far more than one.

The one Mike sent happened less than 100 yards from my hangar.

That subtle nuance of an engine failure versus a throttle slipping back to idle is silly. The end result is the same.

Hey Adam, Can we get a separate forum for Chip and Mike arguing about the same thing in infinite ways, and for Mark to pop in every few posts and tell the both that the Piaggio is better?

MMM not really. An engine failure on a PT-6 equipped airplane triggers an auto feather which helps the airplane stay in the air immeasurably by reducing drag immediately. A throttle migration happens slowly "fooling" the airplane into not triggering the auto feather function allowing the prop to remain in its steady state VASTLY increasing drag on the dead engine. If the auto feather fails in a Piaggio you have to have 129 knots to essentially not die. With it fully functioning it's 100 knots.... a huge difference, which is why we test it before every flight.