My grandad taught me young that the banks will lend you an umbrella and take it off you on a rainy day.

Over my 30 years of business ownership he was proved correct.

Andrew

Banks are with you win or draw.


Robert T

Neat.

In 2013, I had 32 wells drilled for my geothermal field. 2 miles of drilling, 4 miles of pipe, all underneath my future building built on top of the field after it was done. The drill rig cut through rock like it was butter, doing about 1 or 2 feet per minute. I was amazed.

Cost, with pipe insertion and grouting (but not the pipe itself) was $52,800 back then, basically $5 per foot.

Works fabulously. No leaks. I heat and cool my 35,000 SF building for $250/month.

Mike C.

Absolutely, best type of HVAC there is.


It turned out to be cheaper for my new construction building when you factor all true costs.

For example, none of our units have resistive backup heat. To add that would have required a larger utility feed, bigger transformer, bigger electrical panels, much more copper. Air to air units would require resistive backup since they perform so poorly in cold temperatures.

I also put in smaller units that air to air would have been. I have 42 tons (900 SF per ton), architect said the normal rule of thumb is 90 tons (400 SF per ton). My units are two speed and I don't think they have ever used the second speed in 11 years.


I was positive from day one. Now I don't have to worry about replacing outdoor units, copper theft, etc.


That's amazing.

Mike C.

So cool to hear a positive firsthand experience of geo therm climate control.

I have a property I have been considering converting to solar, but this idea seems more interesting.

Where can I learn more?

Call me. I put geothermal in our house when we built it 18 years ago.

Direct thermal solar? Not a good idea.

PV solar? A fantastic idea.

I recently did PV solar on my mother's house in FL (as in, we did the work, no contractor). It's working well. 12KW array, she is 2400 KWH positive on her net metering balance this year so far.

PV solar plus GSHP? An awesome combination.

If you want to know more about PV solar, I can help. What location will determine a lot, such as your net metering rules, code standards, and solar profile.

Mike C.

PV solar works well in sunny Southern Arizona, but it's still quite expensive and the local utility has managed to pretty much gut the net metering benefits.

Call me. I put geothermal in our house when we built it 18 years ago.

With a battery, you can basically manage your system without having net metering. You charge during the day, run battery at night, AZ daily load profile works well since you have solar during the hot part of the day. A fair number of folks are going totally off grid, no utility connection at all. Solar and battery does 98% of their needs, a generator for those few days that don't.

With DIY install, the costs can be a lot cheaper. The solar industry is full of scammers and overpriced installers.

The system on my parent's house was $26K, all costs, with 12 KW array, 28 KWH battery, 12 KW inverter. Her electric bill went from $350 month to $27 (minimum charge). Payback period 6.7 years. Electric rates are jumping all over the place as AI and crypto turn us into the Matrix scenario. We turned it on late Nov 2024, can you tell from the utility report?

The primary reason we did it was for power outages during hurricanes. My father can't leave the house, so their only choice is to stay. But they lose power (like they did for Milton, the eye went right over the house). With the solar and battery, they have power all the time. They can't handle a generator, noise, fuel, maintenance, cost. The solar just works without any effort. The money savings was just gravy.

Panels are unbelievably cheap. Here is 30 panels of 395 watts for $2252:

https://signaturesolar.com/talesun-395w ... 30-panels/

That's 11.85 KW array, only $75 per panel. I find that amazing.

Need inverter, battery, wiring, mounting, etc, to make a full system, but it is still pretty inexpensive to do.

Mike C.

I just shook my head in disbelief as the Tesla installers put up a full roof of panels on a house, directly under a full canopy of oak trees. At least they put them on the South side of the house... I was visiting the neighborhood but almost went to the door to "advise" the homeowners anyway.

The real question... where will this thread lead next...?

Our house (3,200 sq ft) was built in 2003 and had 2 air-source heat pumps (one 3-ton and one 4-ton). We bought the house in 2016 and they were on their last legs, plus were hugely inefficient below 32F. They just ran and ran and the air coming out of the vents was barely warm. We looked at replacing them with newer air-source units (the modern ones are much more efficient, even down to pretty cold temps) but I really liked the idea of geo (ground-source). With a little bit of insulation work we were able to go with a single 5-ton unit with 2 zones. It came with resistive heaters but I flipped the breaker off as soon as the inspector left. It's not apples-apples but the new system is radically cheaper to operate than the old air source system, especially in the winter. The tax credits and utility rebates paid for the wells (3 x 100m) and the unit pricing was equivalent to air-source so all in the cost was a wash.

The quality of the air is so much nicer. It's able to put out much warmer or colder air so the fans don't run as fast and it's so quiet. I really notice when we visit friends and we're trying to sit on the porch and their compressor is roaring away....

I would definitely do it again. The more extreme the temps where you live, the more it makes sense.

With a battery, you can basically manage your system without having net metering. You charge during the day, run battery at night, AZ daily load profile works well since you have solar during the hot part of the day. A fair number of folks are going totally off grid, no utility connection at all. Solar and battery does 98% of their needs, a generator for those few days that don't.

With DIY install, the costs can be a lot cheaper. The solar industry is full of scammers and overpriced installers.

The system on my parent's house was $26K, all costs, with 12 KW array, 28 KWH battery, 12 KW inverter. Her electric bill went from $350 month to $27 (minimum charge). Payback period 6.7 years. Electric rates are jumping all over the place as AI and crypto turn us into the Matrix scenario. We turned it on late Nov 2024, can you tell from the utility report?

The primary reason we did it was for power outages during hurricanes. My father can't leave the house, so their only choice is to stay. But they lose power (like they did for Milton, the eye went right over the house). With the solar and battery, they have power all the time. They can't handle a generator, noise, fuel, maintenance, cost. The solar just works without any effort. The money savings was just gravy.

Panels are unbelievably cheap. Here is 30 panels of 395 watts for $2252:

https://signaturesolar.com/talesun-395w ... 30-panels/

That's 11.85 KW array, only $75 per panel. I find that amazing.

Need inverter, battery, wiring, mounting, etc, to make a full system, but it is still pretty inexpensive to do.

Mike C.

I just reviewed some bankruptcy papers in which the person filing bankruptcy owes over $90,000 for a solar panel system. That is for a 1,537 sq ft home worth less than $300,000.

Ditto, especially the battery bank and any insurance issues with it. We have a 20KW solar system at our house in South Carolina and it's ROI was just over 5 years. Now it's just pocketing money, it's great, but I don't think the town would have let us do the electrical work ourselves.

Chip-