Here's such a comparison I did when I was shopping.

I suspect if you run an apples-to-apples comparison, eg, 500-lb payload and 1,000nm of fuel, you'll find the Piaggio is much closer.

What’s the range on B200 Jim? When I got my Piaggio I remember looking at the flightaware profile and it seemed tough to use full fuel - 800lb payload was almost identical to p180 I thought.

Also, comparing a p180 to a king air is kind of silly. Do you compare Falcon 50 to a TBM? Different planes for different categories. Ironically, the cabin comp on a Falcon aligns well with Piaggio! 6’ across and 5 9” tall. King air t far off tbm

The book says 1,840 nm at normal cruise and over 2,000 at LRC, but that's without winglets. I believe the winglets will push that very close to 2,000 at normal cruise. It's a pretty significant difference up high.

Cabin altitude will be near or slightly over 10,000 at FL350, so it's not for everyone.

I can carry 922 lbs with full fuel.

Mike C - I am curious - how does the Avanti at 10500lbs compare to ground run at sea level w the V?

Assume 500lbs in cabin and 1000 miles of fuel. Not sure why that weight is for you.

Here is Avanti chart. I am on my phone but if I use sea level and no wind I am close to 1800ft

No doubt. I don't think anyone ever called the P.180 a "workhorse" and Piaggio has no intention of it being one. The real competition for the owner-flown P.180 is a jet.

The book says 1,840 nm at normal cruise and over 2,000 at LRC, but that's without winglets. I believe the winglets will push that very close to 2,000 at normal cruise. It's a pretty significant difference up high.

Cabin altitude will be near or slightly over 10,000 at FL350, so it's not for everyone.

I can carry 922 lbs with full fuel.

I completely missed the ChatGPT signature....

That makes MUCH more sense. I'm reading 5750 off that chart. I feel comfortable saying that compared to the B2000, the P.180 is a runway hog. I'll still buy the dinner.

Operators value ease of operation, maintenance options, parts availability, and dispatch reliability over just about everything else.

That’s why a King Air or a Pilatus sells for more than a comparable Piaggio or legacy jet.

There’s a reason charter companies are buying hundreds of brand new Citations, Challengers, Phenoms and Praetors.

It’s easy for an involved owner to make a niche airplane work, but it’s not scalable.

Legacy Citations have the best parts availability, better than the new ones.

On CJP, people with new airplanes seem to have the most parts problems. Intercoolers, parts to fix CJ4 window corrosion, Mustang parts are all unique, etc. Meanwhile, there isn't anything I can't get for my plane quickly and easily, be it from the factory or the salvage yard.

People who buy new to avoid "parts problems" are working off false impressions.

Mike C.

Legacy Citations have the best parts availability, better than the new ones.

On CJP, people with new airplanes seem to have the most parts problems. Intercoolers, parts to fix CJ4 window corrosion, Mustang parts are all unique, etc. Meanwhile, there isn't anything I can't get for my plane quickly and easily, be it from the factory or the salvage yard.

People who buy new to avoid "parts problems" are working off false impressions.

Mike C.

Ironically, when I was talking to phenom owners the complaint was netjets gets the parts priority given fleet size. So there may be a lot of new parts but they go to the biggest buyer.

This is common in industrial machinery and controls as well. Even as an OEM there are times I cannot get a part that my customers who are multi billion enterprises can.

One operator did for sure, I was actually at the old AvantAir facility in Clearwater yesterday.

I even saw a Piaggio sitting on the ramp.