If you aren't confident to do it in the real plane, then it isn't as confident as you can be in a jet.


Really?

Found online:

https://archive.org/details/flight-manu ... 6/mode/2up

It would be weird for a turboprop designed in recent times to lack these charts.

Looking at ISA, 0 MSL, max weight, I get 5000 ft accel go.

Piaggio is not a short field airplane. Many jets will use less runway.

Mike C.

To know a person like Elon is to know he cares Jack about the/his money. He’s a fearless immigrant, very smart, trying to save a (very corrupt) country that gave him the opportunity to do what he has done. I’ve watched countless immigrants, mostly Hispanic, make themselves legit millionaires in the horse business.

Regarding Mars: Elon knows we need to learn space travel.

If you aren't confident to do it in the real plane, then it isn't as confident as you can be in a jet.


Really?

Found online:

https://archive.org/details/flight-manu ... 6/mode/2up

It would be weird for a turboprop designed in recent times to lack these charts.

Looking at ISA, 0 MSL, max weight, I get 5000 ft accel go.

Piaggio is not a short field airplane. Many jets will use less runway.

Mike C.

we have a tremendous brain trust here on BT. Its something to admired and respected. It goes far beyond planes. We all have a chance to examine successes and failures. And in America, learn from our failures. We have freedom to fail. Elon is tremendously successful; and has transformed our world to some respect. How? For money? Sorta. But if you look deeper all of his endeavors have been wrapped around people taking care of people. Tesla. Sacks. A mother and Father caring for children. Maybe Chip, a religious person, can nail that concept down further.How many systems does America have right now where that concept has been corrupted? Far beyond the government. Healthcare? But a abysmal joke. Insurance? What a offing scam. But i vary from my main point. If one looks closely at our entire environment, EVERY minuscule part of it is empowered in such a way to take care of US. Bottom line: the system will correct itself. It will "reboot". Its inevitable.But we can all aim to align with systems and organizations that follow that principle of "people taking care of people". If you dont fall into that category now I suggest you explore future options. America is extremely resilient. We have started at the bottom. Were are not afraid to go there again and get it right next time. Yes we are quite blessed.

[/quote]
Really?

Found online:

https://archive.org/details/flight-manu ... 6/mode/2up

It would be weird for a turboprop designed in recent times to lack these charts.

Looking at ISA, 0 MSL, max weight, I get 5000 ft accel go.

Piaggio is not a short field airplane. Many jets will use less runway.

Mike C.[/quote]

Awesome Mike I knew you could find one for me. What is the Mustang A/G at full weight? What is the Avanti at 1000 lbs under gross since it carries that much more useful than the Mustang? Apples to Apples now…standard day sea level it’s 4100 feet.

[/quote]

Mark youre in deep doo doo arguing numbers with an engineer. My gut told me with that high approach speed this wasn’t a short field plane. Of course Mike showed it with real data.[/quote]

Mike and I go way back even into MU2 days. He knows I come from the pro pilot ranks and has lost a few arguments with me and I’ve lost several to him….Funny thing is 90% of our opinions are identical, much respect for Mike. ☺️

He’s trying to spin this a bit though, if you truly want to compare the two airplane’s accelerate stop or accelerate go performance you have to match the load your carrying.

I’ve never said the Piaggio was a short field airplane it’s not. I don’t fly out of any airports less than 4,000 feet and rarely RARELY carry 8 people as the piaggio can do comfortably. There are no jets under 12 million that will carry 8 people in the cabin comfort, speed, fuel economy or range (combined) as the Avanti, it’s a phenomenal piece of aeronautical engineering which Mike will readily agree to. .

Mark youre in deep doo doo arguing numbers with an engineer. My gut told me with that high approach speed this wasn’t a short field plane. Of course Mike showed it with real data.[/quote]

Mike and I go way back even into MU2 days. He knows I come from the pro pilot ranks and has lost a few arguments with me and I’ve lost several to him….Funny thing is 90% of our opinions are identical, much respect for Mike. ☺️

He’s trying to spin this a bit though, if you truly want to compare the two airplane’s accelerate stop or accelerate go performance you have to match the load your carrying.

I’ve never said the Piaggio was a short field airplane it’s not. I don’t fly out of any airports less than 4,000 feet and rarely RARELY carry 8 people as the piaggio can do comfortably. There are no jets under 12 million that will carry 8 people in the cabin comfort, speed, fuel economy or range (combined) as the Avanti, it’s a phenomenal piece of aeronautical engineering which Mike will readily agree to. .[/quote]

For the record, I think the Piaggio Avanti to is one cool Plane the deal killer right now is the confusion of Parts maintenance same as the Eclipse It’s too bad really but you really have to have a big organization to build and take care of airplanes.

You don't have an AFM for your plane?

You wanted an area the Mustang beats the Piaggio and I gave you one.


Agreed.

Mike C.

[/quote]
You don't have an AFM for your plane?

You wanted an area the Mustang beats the Piaggio and I gave you one.


Agreed.

Mike C.[/quote]

No it’s in paint/interior/avionics upgrade and sitting with the airplane. I have one just not accessible to me now. I figured you would help me out lol, Mike I know you to well remember?

As to the Mustang comparison, ummmm no you didn’t. You compared the airplanes at gross conveniently forgetting to adjust for matching loads. Sooo… do that and get back with me.

What is the A/G distance for the Mustang at full gross weight vs the Piaggio at 1000 lbs below gross?

Now its off to quoting school for me…

Here’s one.

In the rare event a Mustang has a mechanical issue, anywhere in the continental United States, you can make a phone call and have someone there in a few hours to repair it.

Don at Simsair in Houston will do the same. Mark at ICJ in Tulsa will do the same ($$$$).

Dave at Southeast Aero has parts in three hangars totaling 100k sf immediately available.

This is just for the central US. There are several more service providers (Stephens , Doral, etc) in other parts of the country.

Maintaining one is not cheap. I budget 65k a year for 100 hrs not including engine reserves which I don’t do,

Don at Simsair in Houston will do the same. Mark at ICJ in Tulsa will do the same ($$$$).

Dave at Southeast Aero has parts in three hangars totaling 100k sf immediately available.

This is just for the central US. There are several more service providers (Stephens , Doral, etc) in other parts of the country.

Maintaining one is not cheap. I budget 65k a year for 100 hrs not including engine reserves which I don’t do,

"Not looking for government contracts?"

Im pretty sure a large part of Elons fortune is directly attributable to government contracts and subsidies.

Maybe im wrong?

I don't know much about a Piaggio, but have heard they are good performers, but haven't heard anybody say they are a chick magnet.

Thankfully for me my $5 million airplane was on sale or I would not be flying this wonderful JetA sipping aeroplane.

My biggest complaint:
She is way way too comfortable to ONLY have a range of 1400 miles or 1000 miles into a 60 knot headwind.


Small wing means she handles moderate turbulence (that Challengers are trying to escape) with passengers still comfortable.

4 years and over 600 hours with no AOG and nothing over $20k to fix.

340-390 knots depending on altitude and temps.

Seriously Chip,
With your knowledge base on other airplanes I am surprised you have not added Avanti.
I think the learning curve for you would be minimal.