Hmm, there's more to this story. What can you share?

I was approached to provide my airplane for testing the STEC 5000. There was some implausible story about a plane getting stuck in New Orleans or some nonsense. Anyway, not having use of my plane for that long made me unexcited about the option.


Your are rolling the dice with Genesys in that case for how well it works and integrates.

The STEC 500 won't integrate fully with the Garmin panels, so you still need annunciators and such. All things being equal, I'd rather have the Garmin AP so that I know it integrates very well with the panels and navigators.


How is VNAV? Will it track a SID/STAR altitude profiles automatically?

I will be curious what is on the list of things the GFC 600 does that the STEC 5000 doesn't, and vice versa.

Mike C.

I was told it needed discrete annunciators and wouldn't use the PFD indications that the GFC 600 can use. True or false?


Can you provide a more detailed list of these several things it does better?

If they get their act together and get it certified, particularly in the 500, 510, 550 segment that Garmin seems to have put on a long schedule, they could steal Garmin's thunder on 500 series autopilots.

The irony is that if Genesys delivers this AP to many 500 series models, they will drive quite a lot of Garmin revenue for installing PFD panels and such.

The last word I had was the install kit was $65K for the STEC. The Garmin GFC 600 in a Citation is probably going to be $120K, but that's just my guess.

I'm not buying either one until they are in an airplane and I get objective reviews from someone. Ideally, I'd like to fly hem before buying.

Mike C.

Encore+ is Proline 21.

Encore (non plus) and Ultra are Primus 1000. The potential future availability of a Garmin autopilot would open them up to full Garmin panel upgrades. Garmin says this is on the roadmap, but not imminent yet. Garmin seems pathologically unable to understand the revenue this autopilot STC would open up, but hopefully they get going on this.

I have a full Garmin panel in my V, with the original SPZ 500 autopilot. Avionics maintenance has been close to zero, and would be inexpensive if it would occur. I spend less than $1K per year for database for all of it, PL21 is major $$$ for that.

A full Garmin upgrade for the CJ4 seems unlikely.


With problems that go with that. Ask CJ4 owners about windshield related corrosion issues. CJ4 differs from the CJ family in the windshield, door, and wing design, but otherwise is mostly a 525 airplane.


Encore+ book fuel flow at mid weight, FL410, ISA, max thrust is 1088 pph. If they were burring 1400 pph, there is something wrong so I suspect your observation isn't trustworthy. Maybe you took your data at a lower altitude?


The extra cost of capital trumps all those slight advantages, if they exist at all. Depreciation will be a bigger issue for the CJ4 than the Encore+.

I'm fairly certain the Encore+ will be cheaper to maintain since it ties into the 500 series ecosystem with better options. The PW500 series does have two options for overhaul, Pratt and StandardAero, FJ44 has only one, Williams. Not clear that makes a huge difference, though.

The TRs open up options the CJ4 will never have, such as operating from ice covered runways.

Having a lower hull value will make insurance easier and cheaper. Also save on taxes.

Mike C.

I was told it needed discrete annunciators and wouldn't use the PFD indications that the GFC 600 can use. True or false?


Can you provide a more detailed list of these several things it does better?

If they get their act together and get it certified, particularly in the 500, 510, 550 segment that Garmin seems to have put on a long schedule, they could steal Garmin's thunder on 500 series autopilots.

The irony is that if Genesys delivers this AP to many 500 series models, they will drive quite a lot of Garmin revenue for installing PFD panels and such.

The last word I had was the install kit was $65K for the STEC. The Garmin GFC 600 in a Citation is probably going to be $120K, but that's just my guess.

I'm not buying either one until they are in an airplane and I get objective reviews from someone. Ideally, I'd like to fly hem before buying.

Mike C.

I was told the setup would require discrete annunciation since the STEC 5000 wouldn't use the G600 display for that. It would be a difference between the solutions. Not a huge deal necessarily but just a little less integrated.

Maybe they figured out how to delete that difference, which would be nice.

your enthusiasm for the Genesys solution has increased my interest. Now I start to wonder why it is taking so long.


It boggles my mind, too. The market is about as blindingly obvious as it gets and they are letting a competitor take it. Avionics shops, owners, pilots are all asking for this, so its not like Garmin is unaware.

Ironically, if Genesys gets the AP certified, it will increase Garmin sales as Ultras, Bravos, and Encores dump the Primus 1000 panels. So Garmin wins either way.

I still want to see it in operation, even a video would be helpful to establish confidence.

Mike C.

Well I guess it begs the question does Textron sell fewer new planes if Garmin releases an integrated autopilot on legacy aircraft?

Chip-

I think the bigger question is if it worth Garmin's time? Retrofits, especially on legacy airframes take a lot of time and resources, and let's be honest, most pilot's are cheapskates, and the buy in will be lukewarm warm. I imagine with their engineering and manufacturing resources they have taken on about as much work as they can handle. Plus the liability involved in legacy airframes is going to be higher. They will probably get around to it, but I doubt the dollar to work value is better than what they are already doing, mainly developing technology for the OEM's that write big checks and have a lot of resources.

You've never replaced a Primus 1000 screen, have you?

The adoption rate for Ultra, Bravo, Encore will be very high. Adoption for other legacy airframes will be quite high, too.

Each airplane represents at least $250K of revenue for Garmin when you count the GTN, transponders, radar, audio, datalinks, etc.

We're talking $100M revenue easily, potentially $200M. No other autopilot project even comes close to the potential unlocked revenue for the legacy Citations.


And yet they are working on Aztec C, D, E, and F and Cessna 310 P and Q models. Does that make any sense if what you said is true?

The legacy Citations are extremely low liability, among the safest planes in the sky, and the cost of the system is relatively low compared to the budget these planes operate with. The customers and shops are begging Garmin to get on with it.


Better than old piston twins? No way.

Mike C.

With the recent upgrade to the CJ4, all of the new Textron jets now have Garmin, so they’re good.

There’s such a gap between new and legacy aircraft that we typically see two very different buyers / mindsets.

I don’t see any effect from legacy aircraft on new and I think you may see softness in the market for late model CJ4’s since the new ones are Garmin, but even then, most CJ4’s are pro flown, so the owner doesn’t typically care about the panel and some of the pilots prefer PL21.

It will probably increase the sales of new CJ series if the legacy aircraft are more valuable.

One, it means owners of legacy have more market value to reduce the cost of the trade up.

Two, it makes the gap between old and new less so some will go with new.

Three, it entices potential new jet owners to enter the Citation eco system versus other brands due to nicer options.

Four, it adds to the shops that want to service and support Citations if there are more units to work with.

When COVID hit, a lot of planes that might have been sold for salvage instead got repaired and flown. Values went up a lot. There was an influx of new owners and users of small business jets during this time that have, for the most part, not left.

A strong and valuable legacy fleet helps Textron sell new planes.

Mike C.

It will probably increase the sales of new CJ series if the legacy aircraft are more valuable.

One, it means owners of legacy have more market value to reduce the cost of the trade up.

Two, it makes the gap between old and new less so some will go with new.

Three, it entices potential new jet owners to enter the Citation eco system versus other brands due to nicer options.

Four, it adds to the shops that want to service and support Citations if there are more units to work with.

When COVID hit, a lot of planes that might have been sold for salvage instead got repaired and flown. Values went up a lot. There was an influx of new owners and users of small business jets during this time that have, for the most part, not left.

A strong and valuable legacy fleet helps Textron sell new planes.

Mike C.

What aircraft are on the path? 2 years ago, Genesys said the entire 500 series would be on the STC. Lately, I think they have reduced the initial STC set to something smaller.

I don't understand why an Ultra with Primus 1000 would be left off if a V, the nearly identical airplane, would be included. That makes no sense.


There's demand for it.

I want to get rid of my SPZ autopilot. There are 13 boxes I can remove from the plane if I do so, including the entire AC inverter system. I am sure I'll be 100 lbs lighter, if not more, and more reliable and functional.

Mike C.

With the recent upgrade to the CJ4, all of the new Textron jets now have Garmin, so they’re good.

There’s such a gap between new and legacy aircraft that we typically see two very different buyers / mindsets.

I don’t see any effect from legacy aircraft on new and I think you may see softness in the market for late model CJ4’s since the new ones are Garmin, but even then, most CJ4’s are pro flown, so the owner doesn’t typically care about the panel and some of the pilots prefer PL21.

What aircraft are on the path? 2 years ago, Genesys said the entire 500 series would be on the STC. Lately, I think they have reduced the initial STC set to something smaller.

I don't understand why an Ultra with Primus 1000 would be left off if a V, the nearly identical airplane, would be included. That makes no sense.


There's demand for it.

I want to get rid of my SPZ autopilot. There are 13 boxes I can remove from the plane if I do so, including the entire AC inverter system. I am sure I'll be 100 lbs lighter, if not more, and more reliable and functional.

Mike C.

It is because the autopilot is embedded in the Primus 1000 Symbol Generator (IC-600), so the autopilot cannot be separated from the EFIS.