How does $250-300/Hr sound?

Also, how does one post ^^^this^^^to the _two_ previous posts?

Anyone complaining about MX costs needs to go spend a day in the shop with Charlie or Jason. Or better yet, get your own A&P and save yourself a ton of $

I don't charge extra if the owner wants to bring their own parts. Order their own engine, prop etc. If the owner wants to chase them down and get them shipped in go for it. As long as they are the right parts.... Or I agree on the overhauler based on past successful experience. (not always the cheapest). And I don't have to provide a ton of help / info along the way.

I'll save money by not having to spend time on that chore. Profit is not really lost. It doesn't really bother me at all. Shop rate is what I make money on. (or cover expenses with)

Just let me know before hand so I don't order extra filters, oil, ELT battery or other items for the inspection. Especially if they are specialty items for only that airframe.

I'd much rather deal with a customer who knows their airplane and gets involved with what is going on. It's much easier to explain if there is a big problem or expense and it evolves into where we are both trying to keep the airplane airworthy not a hostile us vs owners type of scenario.

In this industry there is a complete disconnect between what the mechanics see everyday as sorely needed maintenance on an 50, 60 + year old airplane and owners want list of "Upgrades" STCs and Avionics. The overhauls, heavy maintenance and corrosion control is not getting done in favor of new avionics, candy coated paint jobs over junk and STCs for gross weight increases that work the airframe harder than ever before.

Just look under the floors, look inside the vertical fin or pull a headliner to see the cabin spar carrrythru condition on any airframe that was not factory zinc chromated.

When the shop that I own works on my own airplane, I charge myself a consumable fee so as to not screw my partner over. The cost of sealant, grease, tape, shipping, chemicals, hardware, and gases is significant.

Mike

Owner supplying parts can be great, until it isn’t.
We had a customer with a 421 or 414 that had the factory A/C with the hydraulically driven compressor in the right nacelle. The compressor needed replaced and the owner didn’t like the price for an overhaul exchange or new one, so he said he would source a used unit. Great. Used unit shows up and it has a different style input shaft than the original, so it can’t be connected to the motor. Of course, he wants us to send it back where it came from while he looked for another one. Second unit shows up a week later with the correct input shaft, but it will barely turn. Again, our parts guys need to send it back. Our parts guys don’t invoice their time to a work order, as their time is accounted for in the parts mark-up. But since there is no parts mark-up on his owner supplied parts, the parts department is providing their services for free. This went on for three or four used compressors, all with various problems, while the 421 continues taking up a substantial percentage of the hangar floor space, which is needed for other projects. Finally the DOM told the owner “we are buying an overhauled compressor, if that’s not acceptable, come and get the plane now. We are done screwing around”.

A number of shops (big and small) are run by “technicians” from the E-Myth book by Michael Gerber.

The “technician” is good at what he/she does (plumber, A&P, Pilot, electrician IT, CPA, lawyer, Doc, etc…) and is tired of working for “the man”. Starts their own business and is mildly successful because they are so good at their craft. But, they are not business people. Hence you get stuff like this.

Rarely in my work as a business coach do I run into firms who charge enough. “The market won’t bear it”, or some other excuse. Most often it is because they have not really defined their TCP (target client profile). They are in the AFAB (anything for a buck) market.

I see this with MX shops frequently. They were started by technicians, who don’t know business. At first they work on a lot of small planes and get a reputation for excellent work and knowledge. As the shop grows, they hire more techs with experience in avionics, turbines, jets, etc…. They decide they make good money working on the bigger iron, but still charge the rates of the small planes, “because the small plane guys can’t afford it…”. Classic case of not defining a TCP and sticking to it. Either ditch the large guys or ditch the small guys. It is rare a shop can deliver a consistent experience to both.

One shop I interacted with frequently did not have any sense of urgency because of all the work on small private planes. The attitude was “it will be ready when it is ready”. Deadlines blown by weeks sometimes. You may be able to get that by a small plane owner, but when a pt 135 money making plane is down for longer than scheduled, the pt 135 operator could be losing money. The shop just didn’t “get” that because the small plane guys see everything related to MX as an expense, where pt 135 operators start to bring in opportunity cost.

Technicians…

Looking at this thread is the reason GA shops are dying. It’s much easier to work on big expensive aircraft that the owners don’t cry about every fee. They just want their plane back as soon as possible at all costs.

Shops should be charging you for all of their time, everything that goes into your aircraft. Pretty soon everybody will be begging for anybody who they can get to work on their pistons…..

You should see real bills from big boy airplanes. They are pages and pages long and everything is covered.

I don’t know any GA shop owners who are driving around exotic cars.

The firewood bundles at Publix were $3.99 before the china virus. They are $8.99 now.

Publix is completely out of control with their prices. I was there Friday and was shocked at the cost of their meat. 2 tiny steaks were $34 and chose to not buy them. A tiny bag of almonds was $11 which I also chose not to buy. But, the place was packed and people's shopping carts were full.

I used to be a really big Publix fan. The meat hasn't really been that good and, you're right, it's significantly more expensive. I don't really know the details around if this is common, but at least over the past few months it sure seemed like the meat was full of water to increase the weight. The prices are bananas over other places like Aldi - everything from eggs to bread. The only reason we go there is the BOGO deals - however - I'm not really convinced it's that much of a deal.

I used to be a really big Publix fan. The meat hasn't really been that good and, you're right, it's significantly more expensive.

Ok here is today's example. I have a customer with a Bell Jet Ranger. He keeps it at his rock quarry airstrip about 1/2 hr drive away.

The Electric directional gyro failed. So I made the trip up and removed it. I boxed it and sent it for overhaul back before the holidays.

The Gyro returned last week and so today I drove up to reinstall it. Sunday AM and I want to get it done before plowing snow this afternoon. Powered up the helicopter and the gyro fail flag will not retract. So I troubleshot to be sure I get full voltage, Removed the gyro to check pins, checked for good ground, bumped it a bit and reinstalled. Verified the gyro is turning just the flag will not retract. The electric Horizon flag above it retracts the flag just fine.

So I removed the gyro again and a Monday I will call the shop to see what to do. I think the only option is box it up and ship it back for repair. Then when it comes in go back up and reinstall.

Who pays for the call time, second installation and trip to reinstall plus boxing, shipping again? It's not huge but still ties up 1/2 a day or more if you account for the whole process.

The instrument shop will only warranty their work
I picked the overhaul shop the customer did not.

This is what destroys the GA shops. This used to happen once in a while but over the last 10 years it has really changed. Bench check before shipping???

It's nearly all of the tagged certified items I receive back from overhaul shops are defective in some way. And a very high percentage of new items have issues. Not just one vender. ALL of them. From bottom to top right up through new engines from Lycoming.

It is just as bad in the turbine world from my Kingair experiences.

Sad but true.

If a mechanic went out of his/her way to make a "house call" like Charlie described, I'd be sure they got something for their time and trouble, even if the first crack at the issue didn't work out.

I'd fully expect to lose that kind of arrangement if I didn't... perhaps he/she would be "too busy" next time.

Because of the high failure rate of repaired and overhauled instruments, my policy is that the customer pays for the labor to remove, ship and reinstall the instrument. This applies to the first or second round. I make sure the customer understands this when I give them the choice of repair, overhaul or new.
Maintenance providers can't keep eating the cost of maintaining 20, 40, 60 year old aircraft and components.

At the very least, this educates the owner on the likelihood of component failure straight from overhaul.