Hello all-
My partner and I have been looking to move up to a 501. We have been in touch with Mike Tarver and others on this board for advice (thanks to all).
We got a quote from our agent for $36k and 50 hours mentor time. If you say $1200/hr to fly a 501- that is $60k in mentor flying plus another $18k= $78k in insurance and training before we could even fly as PIC. This will not work for me.
I have approx 1700 hours, 350ME (mostly cessna 421), 25 turbine, CFII and MEI
My partner has 2000 hours, 600ME (a lot of 421 time)
I have also reached out to another agent whom Tarver recommended but haven't heard back from them yet.

Any suggestions folks?

Others will chime in, but the most popular option is accumulate time in type using other's airplanes if possible before you apply for your own insurance. Get your type rating and try to fly as PIC as much as you can, see if you can get 50h in type and then reapply.

About a year ago, I started flying a 501. W. Brown had been insuring me in a 414A for several years and they came back with what I thought were pretty reasonable requirements. 15 hrs in type before solo and 5 hrs of solo before carrying passengers. I did have more TT and ME time than what you listed.

In general, I've found W. Brown to have slightly higher (but still competitive) rates but to be more flexible on requirements. For example, they only require an IPC in type every 12 months to insure me in the 414A where all the other underwriters require some sort of formal re-current training.

I'd see which underwriter(s) your agent got quotes from and have them check with W. Brown if they haven't already done so.

What if you just took an extended trip to Europe in it and back w. the instructor? It's an adventure, you see something new, you get an Atlantic crossing in the logbook and it'd be done in a week. Go see the old country, drink some wine. Sounds good to me, paisan?

A plug for Tom Hauge.....Wings Insurance....he's Right here on BT

You (assumedly) are buying this thing to work for you. Instead of looking at your mentoring hours as training flights where you just tool around the semi-local are turning cold air into hot, find a mentor that is willing to ride right seat on trips you would make in the normal course of business anyway. It'll take a little longer, but you're not just pouring cash into training, and doing real-world flying alongside a mentor on a longer-term basis is a lot more well-rounded education than going through artificially-created training scenarios again and again.

Stan that is a good idea. However this is purely a personal use plane- no business use, but could still have a pilot come on our vacations and trips but would just need to figure out schedules and compensation. Gets complicated that way.

I made a 50/50 assumption, and looks like I missed.
If purely personal use, then that does complicate it somewhat.

Guy - If it helps I have been using Falcon Insurance (now Acrisure) here in Houston for the past 20 years and they have been very good and have always found us competitive rates and policies. Between my brother, my partner and I, we have insured everything from small singles, antiques, and sport planes all the way up to G550s and Legacy 600s.

For the past 5 years insurance increases have outpaced inflation by a significant factor - back in 2020 I was paying 10K with QBE for my CJ flying an average of 300 hours x year, and 12K for our Hawker 400. This year my CJ insurance with IAT Insurance Group came in at 18K - and I have 3,000+ hours in type.

My brother and a partner of mine own a Part-135 operation with a couple of Legacy 600's, Gulfstream 550s and several King Airs and are also happy with Acrisure.

If you were quoted 36K with not much turbojet experience, there may be some room for improvement but it does not sound outrageous. I am not sure about the 50 hour mentor pilot requirement - when I bought my CJ I had a 25 hour mentor pilot requirement. Nonetheless, and depending on your particular situation, if you can find an experienced pilot to fly right seat for at least 30-50 hours with you I think it would be a good idea not only for insurance but to acquire the right level of proficiency. Try Acrisure and good luck on your journey.

Great info thanks Alex. My quote was from Acrisure.

Can you and your partner go fly for a Regional for 6 months?

I have a full time surgical practice so as much as I’d love to have a part time regional gig, I don’t see how I could make that work. Unless some type of flying job was just weekends.

The regionals aren’t hiring like they were 2 years ago anyway. Now the ones who are still actively hiring are making new hires sign long contracts. And there’s an overflow of highly qualified pilots on the street as Spirit and others continue to fall apart. Not a great time to be looking for a regional job.

Just a couple of disjointed thoughts…

You’re going to need at least 25 hours in the airplane before you feel comfortable. Yes, the 501 is relatively easy to fly, but without much turbine time (especially for your partner) it will just take time to get comfortable. It’s also a lot faster than you’re used to, particularly on the takeoff and initial climb phases.

A mentor Pilot will charge you between $1200-$1500/day plus expenses so ensure you include that in your calculus.

A couple of thought on insurance - 1) perhaps instead of getting you both insured, see who the most insurable person is (you I suspect) and just get him insured then build jet with the other partner. 2) insure the plane with a basic open pilot clause (so mentor pilots and other PICs are covered) and y’all just fly it naked. Reapply for insurance when you have 50 hours pic time.

Good luck! You’ll enjoy the 501.

Robert

Simple, take a leave of absence from your current job, go fly-full time as FO/Gear Swinger for a regional or corporate gig and get the experience you'll need.