Brian, in that thread they talk about early Hornet pilots using a bungee cord for nose down force. Do you know anything about that? I'm unsure why a fleet pilot would need that.

I also am curious why the trim system won't provide the necessary nose down force to take the slack out.

They say it gives a more precise feel and takes some of that 'slack' you mention out.
I only flew with them that one time and IF it is present in the backseat stick I didn't notice it, though I didn't have to fly it for very long at any one time.
Maybe Gary will have some insight. I'd imagine he got quite a few rides in his time.

They say it gives a more precise feel and takes some of that 'slack' you mention out.
I only flew with them that one time and IF it is present in the backseat stick I didn't notice it, though I didn't have to fly it for very long at any one time.
Maybe Gary will have some insight. I'd imagine he got quite a few rides in his time.

The bungee (40lbs) pulls the stick nose down. It’s literally a spring on a handle that hooks onto the stick. The purpose is to remove the “null” spot in the stick (since the airplane is fly by wire). Although tiny, this null spot is significant when you’re flying form tight enough that only pressure changes on the stick are used. By end of season, in some maneuvers, we would have the wingtips ~8” (look for Diamond 360). Close enough that #2 and #3 could feel the bow-wake from the others’ wingtip.

Trim would not accomplish what the spring does. IIRC, the hornet auto-trims.

I don’t know what happens now, in the Super. I’m old; these were Lot A legacy hornets. But holy cow, they were fun and FAST!

The Patriots L-39's aren't modified, except for the smoke system. It's pretty cool and different in that they can program different smoke patterns. That said, they primarily use solid smoke, or "1" on, 1" off" mode. What is interesting is to get the jets sync'd up, they all tie into a GPS signal so that the smoke puffs on all the jets at the exact same time. Go to the 50" point in this video to see what I'm talking about. https://youtu.be/cyPmTiHJu9g?si=szHkpdwFxMgfWJsb

A couple of things you may also appreciate from the video:
- how low #2 gets on his "low pass". Yeah, no radar altimeter...
- how close the opposing/head-on passes are.
- how unmodified and original the cockpits are. Yes, the altimeters are in feet now... but everything else is Eastern European original. Needless to say, IFR isn't something we do.


I don't know what the deal was with borrowing jets from some owners in New Zealand but I'll ask, and if they are ok with me posting, I will.


As for the Blues' bungee/spring, it's like Gary said. I flew with 2 former Blues Solos on The Patriots and heard them say the same thing. Another former Blue I know wrote this to me: "As you know, there is a spring connected to the stick to give us feedback on the stick position. Without that, there is a "void" near the center of the stick position where the stick can move 1/8 to 1/4 inch without triggering a flight control response. Bottom line it feels like "slop" if the spring is not connected. Not really noticeable unless you are flying 6 inches from a dude."

Another guy in my squadron flew as a Solo on the Thunderbirds, and he said they had the trim on the Viper set full nose-down. He said that, after you get used to it, you wish you had more available.

Who were the Blues Huggy?
Timeframe they were on the team?

Huggy-

Just trying learn. Why complicate the smoke system with electronics for syncing? Could be done all by coms, “smoke ON, pull…”.

And when you say orignal, do you mean they still have the RAT and originally ejection seats?

I looked at the data, I decided based on the numbers (for me) it was best to have a cold seat and ride it. unless it comes apart, I’m going to be sitting in that seat when it lands.

Banker and Intake are the former Blues. They were on the Blues around 1999. Intake still flies for The Patriots and did a bunch of the aerial work in Top Gun: Maverick.

Gary,
I didn't describe the smoke system well. The smoke is activated by each pilot using a throttle-mounted switch. When the smoke is turned on, it comes on in one of two modes:
- Steady, like you see with a military team.
- 1" on/off pulses.

When in the pulse mode, the jets sync up via GPS (think of it sort of like getting a HAVEQUICK mickey). Otherwise, each jet would be pulsing its smoke on its own. When the 6 jets are in the Delta, it would look like a bunch of random pulses. As it is now, it looks fantastic with every jet smoking at the exact same time. In some youtube videos, you'll see one jet not in sync with the others. It happens.

I don't mind flying the L-39 without an ejection seat. But for low-altitude, multi-ship close formation airshow stuff, having the seat is pretty nice. If things go wrong down low, you may not have any other options.

Thanks. I didn't know either of them.
My first exposure to the Blues was 'Utah' Provo - a RAG IP of mine that joined the Blues after I graduate in '94. He was featured on that long running IMAX film they had at the museum at P-cola.


Sounds like the system (at least the sync'ed computer controlled part) that the GEICO SkyWriters had in place for their shows doesn't it? Computer sync'ed and ontrolled so the airplanes flying in formation could produced pictures or words.


I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want the complexity and cost of an ejection seat system in private use, but man I sure would like that hopeful last chance in that environment.

The built the smoke setup long before I got on the team. They were sponsored by Frye's Electronics for a long time, and I heard the team owner had an electronics guy build the system from scratch using parts from Frye's. No idea how accurate that is.

GREAT dude. He tends to be a fixture at the Nov end of season show. He was flying a twin commander a few years back, no idea if he’s still in it.

GREAT dude. He tends to be a fixture at the Nov end of season show. He was flying a twin commander a few years back, no idea if he’s still in it.

Here's a couple from the GoPro in my jet (L-39 Diamond Right Wing) from last night's show at SnF. The first is from our Snort Roll (an Alpha rolls around our smoke trail). The second is from the burst closer with the MiG leading.

recent mix-tape... L39

Gary, awesome video!

To embed it, you need to get the "share" link from the youtube video and paste the whole thing in a post. Then highlight what you pasted and click the YouTube button in the post editor to add the youtube tags.