I'm not sure this is accurate. I'm no engineer, but unless the BSFC between a Continental IO-550 and a Lycoming IO-540 is way different, then the fuel consumption between the two engines at a given power setting should be within spitting distance. I believe the compression ratios of both engines are similar and the temperatures are also similar, so saying one engine requires more fuel to make the same horsepower doesn't make a lot of sense to me. On the other hand, I've heard that the Continental Malibu guys run LOP and the Lycoming Mirage guys run ROP. If that's the case then, yes, the Lycoming will burn more fuel. Otherwise, it's an old wives tale.

Not if the Lycoming runs ROP and throws fuel away unburned, and the TCM runs LOP and doesn't do that.

That's the difference. The TCM Malibu was operated LOP per the POH.

Mike C.

Not if the Lycoming runs ROP and throws fuel away unburned, and the TCM runs LOP and doesn't do that.

That's the difference. The TCM Malibu was operated LOP per the POH.

Mike C.

Exactly.

I’ve flown both a turbo Lycoming Piper Saratoga (retractable version) and a new M350 (also turbo Lycoming) and in both cases the fuel flow in level cruise flight was prodigious.

I have read that *some* of the Lycoming 540’s will run happily LOP and if you have one of those good for you. My preference is still a big bore Continental in favor of a Lycoming.

Actually my *preference* would be an M600 but unless I won the lottery last night (not likely!) I can’t afford it.

The M700 has been certified on 2/29 and Piper will start delivering this month.

Where did you hear that? I didn't see that on their newsfeed or website? Excited to hear some real world experience on the plane.

Just playing with the Beta version of Piper Pro-Flight by Bob Urschel. Today it is showing that the take off ground roll for an M700 out of Vero Beach today is 867 feet. How long is an aircraft carrier?

Press release. Came in email this morning.

 
Piper M700 FURY Earns Type Certification by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration



 
Vero Beach, FL, March 4th, 2024 – Piper Aircraft, Inc. announced today the type certification of its new flagship aircraft, the Piper M700 FURY, by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, achieved on February 29, 2024. This certification is a significant milestone for Piper Aircraft, coming quickly after the new aircraft’s announcement on February 6, 2024. Customer deliveries will begin immediately.

With a maximum cruise speed of 301 knots and a maximum range of 1,424 nm, the M700 FURY is the fastest single engine aircraft in Piper’s 87+ year history. This cabin-class turboprop aircraft is equipped with Pratt & Whitney’s PT6A-52 engine generating 700 shaft horsepower and the latest version of Garmin’s G3000 cockpit, including Garmin’s Emergency Autoland as part of Piper’s HALO safety system.

Key M700 FURY performance highlights include:

• Take-off Performance – TOFL distance over a 50 ft. obstacle at SL, STD Day MGTOW is a class-leading 1,994 ft., representing a 641 ft., 24 percent improvement when compared to the M600/SLS that it replaces. That TOFL performance is also 1,198 ft. (38 percent) shorter than a competing single-engine jet.
• Initial Climb – after a MGTOW departure, the M700 FURY enjoys a class-leading 2,048 fpm climb rate, 32 percent better than the M600/SLS.
• Climb to Altitude – settled into the climb, the M700 FURY reaches a comfortable FL250 in 13.9 minutes (34 percent quicker than the M600/SLS) after covering a short 34-mile distance (35 percent less distance than prior) while only burning 97 lbs. of fuel (25 percent less fuel than the M600/SLS and nearly 50 percent less fuel than a single-engine jet competitor).
• Cruise – 301-knot max cruise speed.
• Landing Performance – Landing over a 50 ft. obstacle, the M700 FURY continues its class-leading performance, achieving a 26 percent reduction versus the M600/SLS and within half the ground roll distance of some competitors.

“We are thrilled to announce the U.S. certification of the Piper M700 FURY by the FAA just a month after its announcement," said John Calcagno, President & CEO of Piper Aircraft. “And there’s more to come. The FURY is just the first step in a new generation of our M-Class product line, so watch this space, as Piper’s M-Class will be expanding both above and below what we currently offer today.”

The M700 FURY international validations for Canada (TCCA), Europe (EASA), the UK (CAA) and Brazil (ANAC) are on track to be completed in the second half of 2024, with customer deliveries in those regions before the end of the year.

For more information about the Piper M700 FURY and other aircraft in the Piper Aircraft lineup, please visit www.piper.com.

Above and below what is currently offered? That is interesting. Above? Would be nice to see them come out with something between the M700 and the PC12. Below?? Something below the M350? Maybe something to compete with the SR22? Also another gap right now. The M350 is a bigger step up from the SR22 than some pilots like. Bigger in expense, and the 43 foot wingspan makes hangar space a little challenging for some. So a 4-5 seat diesel powered aircraft with CAPS and less than a 40 foot wing span would give people an alternative to Cirrus. Cirrus makes a good plane, but at over a mil per copy, and climbing faster than inflation, with perhaps some less than stellar customer support right now, there is room for a competitor. The DA50 is kind of a competitor, but again a giant wingspan, and the SR22 and the M350 beat it in pretty much every performance metric.

So much for those that said it wouldn't be out until late '24 or '25. Piper was smart, they spent years getting it ready, already knew when they were going to get FAA Cert. Nice job Piper. Living until KVRB approach and takeoff path, wondering how many I'll see, though hard to tell from below!

Above and below what is currently offered? That is interesting. Above? Would be nice to see them come out with something between the M700 and the PC12. Below?? Something below the M350? Maybe something to compete with the SR22? Also another gap right now. The M350 is a bigger step up from the SR22 than some pilots like. Bigger in expense, and the 43 foot wingspan makes hangar space a little challenging for some. So a 4-5 seat diesel powered aircraft with CAPS and less than a 40 foot wing span would give people an alternative to Cirrus. Cirrus makes a good plane, but at over a mil per copy, and climbing faster than inflation, with perhaps some less than stellar customer support right now, there is room for a competitor. The DA50 is kind of a competitor, but again a giant wingspan, and the SR22 and the M350 beat it in pretty much every performance metric.

"I just don't see Piper spending the capital to do that. Cirrus owns their market, and look at a few BO's for sales on the for sale page. "

"Bet they refine the 700 with some more features, but Piper is making money, why ruin it with a "tweener". Cirrus will fix their customer support, always do, and they continue to innovate. They own the High Performance SE market now."

"I just don't see Piper spending the capital to do that. Cirrus owns their market, and look at a few BO's for sales on the for sale page. "

"Bet they refine the 700 with some more features, but Piper is making money, why ruin it with a "tweener". Cirrus will fix their customer support, always do, and they continue to innovate. They own the High Performance SE market now."[/quote]
Agreed on capacity. All manufactures are capacity constrained right now and the capital cost in a cyclical market makes it difficult to want to invest more.

Chuck is right that Piper has nothing between the Archer and M350. That is a big jump in capital and operating cost.

I have a new Piper Archer. Never thought I would buy one, but I really like it more every time I fly it and using to finish my IR in. I wasn't a Piper guy, but Piper has gotten a lot of stuff right with incremental improvements over the last few years. It makes a great first owner aircraft and really think it's a better PPL through IR aircraft than a Cirrus.

The problem for me; Piper has me as a brand, but I am not ready to move up to an M350 from and operational and cost perspective. That's why my next step will probably be a SR22, G36 or 206. Once I am out of brand, they could lose me entirely.

Below - Piper reincarnates the Saratoga/6X line. They have the TC and hopefully the tooling. Just need an updated interior and avionic stack.

Above - The Piper Altaire (ala PiperJet). 90+ units a year from Cirrus has validated the market. https://www.flyingmag.com/news-piper-revamps-its-jet-its-now-altaire/[/quote]

Love the Archer. Great airplane. Can’t afford a new one! Will have to buy a used turbine instead

Agreed on capacity. All manufactures are capacity constrained right now and the capital cost in a cyclical market makes it difficult to want to invest more.

Chuck is right that Piper has nothing between the Archer and M350. That is a big jump in capital and operating cost.

I have a new Piper Archer. Never thought I would buy one, but I really like it more every time I fly it and using to finish my IR in. I wasn't a Piper guy, but Piper has gotten a lot of stuff right with incremental improvements over the last few years. It makes a great first owner aircraft and really think it's a better PPL through IR aircraft than a Cirrus.

The problem for me; Piper has me as a brand, but I am not ready to move up to an M350 from and operational and cost perspective. That's why my next step will probably be a SR22, G36 or 206. Once I am out of brand, they could lose me entirely.

Below - Piper reincarnates the Saratoga/6X line. They have the TC and hopefully the tooling. Just need an updated interior and avionic stack.

Above - The Piper Altaire (ala PiperJet). 90+ units a year from Cirrus has validated the market. https://www.flyingmag.com/news-piper-revamps-its-jet-its-now-altaire/

Interesting they call out new products. I look up every day all day when outside (live near KVRB), hoping to get a view of something different! No luck so far!

The M700 is their new "above" product. I think there isn't another announcement in that space. Just below. Likely it's a refresh of the M350. Put a diesel or a fadec controlled avgas engine plus a G2000 avionics stack. Done.