1149 nm with reserves would imply 50 gph at max cruise. That might be possible, especially if they achieved that speed at a lower altitude. That might solve the mystery of all the numbers. And also why there is such a big delta between max cruise and LRC. Different altitudes amd much different fuel burns.

TravelJohns make relief tubes obsolete.

Relief tubes cause problems. Smell, corrosion, cabin leaks, freeze up, etc. Get rid of them.

TJs have none of these problems. I consider them a piece of safety equipment since needing to go has negative influence on decision making and performance.

Mike C.

I still ride both of my KTM’s.

Now I'm really confused-- 1,149 nautical miles is 2,128 kilometers.

TravelJohns make relief tubes obsolete.

Relief tubes cause problems. Smell, corrosion, cabin leaks, freeze up, etc. Get rid of them.

TJs have none of these problems. I consider them a piece of safety equipment since needing to go has negative influence on decision making and performance.

Mike C.

Hopefully Piper did a much better job on the M700 engineering than thay are doing with the marketing communications.

Do you have proof of those assertions? I have owned and or flown many planes with a relief tube. Never smelled anything, and never had corrosion or pressurization issues. I doubt seriously if that small tube could ever cause a leak that would be noticed by a correctly functioning pressurization system.
Some of the Citations I fly have Ice drawers with an electric drain valve that we leave open at all times. Same size hose and it causes no issues.

AD related to relief tube corrosion on 525 series:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -airplanes

As to smell and leaks, those are from other owner reports, so anecdotal.

TJs are a superior solution, and can be used by anybody in the airplane, not someone in range of the horn and tube. Putting away a wet relief tube horn is not fun.

Mike C.

You think Piper made that mistake? It's right there on their brochure,
"Max Range 1,852 nm 3,430 km"
https://www.piper.com/wp-content/upload ... cSheet.pdf

I would never leave pee on the funnel. We have a water bottle and some wet wipes. I would think anyone using the tube would move to it to use it.

I had a buddy of mine tell his maintenance shop the hose on his relief tube was too short…

You can probably imagine the comments that generated.

That is one of the problems I hear about the Travel Johns. If the OEM equipment is a little under-engineered, can be tough to use.

Bob Urschel who does the proflight apps for Cirrus, TBM and Piper just put out a beta version for the M700. Interesting numbers. The M700 seems to have some free speed over the M600. Basically 30 knots faster altitude for altitude but essentially same fuel burn per trip. Higher burn but higher speed cancels it out. Guess that is achieved with a faster climb rate, a more aerodynamic and improved thrust vector stack, and a more efficient compressor. The take off and landing performance is impressive. On a TYS to VRB flight showing 837 ft. Takeoff roll and 782 ft. Landing roll. 18 min to FL290. Must be a hoot to fly.

Not sure this deserves its own thread. Placing it here to show that Piper is making investments in manufacturing + diversifying.

Piper is impressive in this way. They're seemingly the only <10 seats airplane manufacturer left that continues to seriously iterate on the products. The M series is a great example. They improve the airframe, make significant changes to power plants, etc. Nobody else is doing that anymore. Cirrus is busy adding new USB ports, and Cessna and Beechcraft try to compete by adding avionics made by other people to old airframes.