03 May 2025, 19:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 21 Jan 2024, 21:42 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3137 Post Likes: +2282 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
|
|
The project is based on having an extremely clean wing and airframe at very high altitudes, which is a practical impossibility. Bird crap, rain, ice, dings, bugs, and plain old dirt would dramatically reduce the performance. The only aircraft I know of that do this today are gliders that have wipers that run down the length of the wing to remove bugs and other containments in flight. I'm not sure how well they work, but they operate at far lower speeds and altitudes. Even then the whole airframe is not laminar flow, and this is a glider.
I also question if it is possible to design a turbine engine that exceeds piston efficiency levels at sub and supersonic speeds, at any altitude.
Regardless I don't think anyone with a billion dollars is going to give it to this program.
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 21 Jan 2024, 23:18 |
|
 |

|

|
Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 5162 Post Likes: +5122
Aircraft: C501, R66
|
|
Username Protected wrote: What happened to the 500? As I recall it was a single engine piston, got to the point of flight testing. I think they flew the 500 for three years to prove the point. I also think the guy is using his own money.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 02:46 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2813 Post Likes: +2765 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I think they flew the 500 for three years to prove the point. Did it prove the point? I don't recall hearing anything about how it performed, whether it lived up to its claims.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 10:36 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 01/10/17 Posts: 2123 Post Likes: +1547 Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
|
|
I think this will be forever using up development money with occasional hardware flights to keep investment interest. Moller Skycar...
Forget the diesel and put a proven common engine on the 500 airframe to still have an efficient airplane with stand up cabin. Let the airframe technology prove it's worth with a baseline from a standard engine.
Once the airplane is proven continue with the advanced high altitude diesel to have the full package later. Small steps not all at once with a manufacturing startup.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 10:50 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3137 Post Likes: +2282 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I think they flew the 500 for three years to prove the point. Did it prove the point? I don't recall hearing anything about how it performed, whether it lived up to its claims.
The climb rate was abysmal. There’s another thread on it, but in my view it proved the concept doesn’t work. I assume the turbine version is to make up for that shortcoming, while not solving the others.
It’s a neat concept, but not much better than the Raptor in terms of a realistic commercial application.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 15:13 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 01/30/09 Posts: 3614 Post Likes: +2258 Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
|
|
Username Protected wrote: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xLlN3HjsvC0
I think this could actually happen. That's a very weird, *machine-narrated* video. It would be a long, long way off even if.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 15:58 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 12/10/10 Posts: 46 Post Likes: +13 Location: KNQA
Aircraft: TBM910, PA18
|
|
Supersonic laminar flow? Nope... not by a long shot. Nice marketing video though.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 16:05 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 12/24/18 Posts: 599 Post Likes: +684 Location: KHFD
Aircraft: F33A
|
|
Laminar flow isn’t the controlling issue while flying at high sonic/supersonic speeds.
It’s the drag bulge at the wing fuselage intersection (solvable by area ruling). The airplane shown in the video is going to run into the same wall every other design in the last 50 years has.
Even the Concorde couldn’t overcome the issue, so they used brute force (I.e., 4 turbojet engines) to fly supersonic.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 16:33 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3137 Post Likes: +2282 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Laminar flow isn’t the controlling issue while flying at high sonic/supersonic speeds.
It’s the drag bulge at the wing fuselage intersection (solvable by area ruling). The airplane shown in the video is going to run into the same wall every other design in the last 50 years has.
Even the Concorde couldn’t overcome the issue, so they used brute force (I.e., 4 turbojet engines) to fly supersonic. These guys are using the laminar flow magic and should be using area rule and the raptor was claiming area rule and should have been using the laminar flow magic. Maybe they should get together and swap marketing.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 22 Jan 2024, 17:26 |
|
 |

|

|
 |
Joined: 01/25/17 Posts: 204 Post Likes: +167 Location: Savannah, GA (KSAV)
Aircraft: 1959 Bonanza K35
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I think this will be forever using up development money with occasional hardware flights to keep investment interest. Moller Skycar...
Forget the diesel and put a proven common engine on the 500 airframe to still have an efficient airplane with stand up cabin. Let the airframe technology prove it's worth with a baseline from a standard engine.
Once the airplane is proven continue with the advanced high altitude diesel to have the full package later. Small steps not all at once with a manufacturing startup. Interesting point. It ran on a new-design diesel engine, I wonder how it would have performed with a PT-6 on the back? Single-engine Avanti that can fill the niche left by the demise of Piaggio?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800 Posted: 23 Jan 2024, 05:27 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 01/10/17 Posts: 2123 Post Likes: +1547 Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
|
|
yes exactly that. I think most of their airframe technology appears to be the top surface of a laminar flow airfoil lofted in a circle to make the fuselage shape. But if it works it gives a good volume to work with. With the engine they used and lack of rear world numbers it's hard to tell if the airplane is efficient or not. I wonder what other airplanes if any flew with that engine and the results?
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|