banner
banner

03 May 2025, 19:13 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Garmin International (Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2024, 20:13 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 5162
Post Likes: +5122
Aircraft: C501, R66
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xLlN3HjsvC0

I think this could actually happen.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2024, 21:42 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3137
Post Likes: +2282
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
The project is based on having an extremely clean wing and airframe at very high altitudes, which is a practical impossibility. Bird crap, rain, ice, dings, bugs, and plain old dirt would dramatically reduce the performance. The only aircraft I know of that do this today are gliders that have wipers that run down the length of the wing to remove bugs and other containments in flight. I'm not sure how well they work, but they operate at far lower speeds and altitudes. Even then the whole airframe is not laminar flow, and this is a glider.

I also question if it is possible to design a turbine engine that exceeds piston efficiency levels at sub and supersonic speeds, at any altitude.

Regardless I don't think anyone with a billion dollars is going to give it to this program.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2024, 22:26 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/06/14
Posts: 3693
Post Likes: +2555
Location: MA
Aircraft: Cessna 340A
What happened to the 500? As I recall it was a single engine piston, got to the point of flight testing.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2024, 23:18 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 5162
Post Likes: +5122
Aircraft: C501, R66
Username Protected wrote:
What happened to the 500? As I recall it was a single engine piston, got to the point of flight testing.


I think they flew the 500 for three years to prove the point. I also think the guy is using his own money.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 02:46 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 2813
Post Likes: +2765
Company: Retired
Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
Username Protected wrote:
I think they flew the 500 for three years to prove the point.
Did it prove the point? I don't recall hearing anything about how it performed, whether it lived up to its claims.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 10:36 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/10/17
Posts: 2123
Post Likes: +1547
Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
I think this will be forever using up development money with occasional hardware flights to keep investment interest. Moller Skycar...

Forget the diesel and put a proven common engine on the 500 airframe to still have an efficient airplane with stand up cabin. Let the airframe technology prove it's worth with a baseline from a standard engine.

Once the airplane is proven continue with the advanced high altitude diesel to have the full package later. Small steps not all at once with a manufacturing startup.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 10:50 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3137
Post Likes: +2282
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
Username Protected wrote:
I think they flew the 500 for three years to prove the point.
Did it prove the point? I don't recall hearing anything about how it performed, whether it lived up to its claims.


The climb rate was abysmal. There’s another thread on it, but in my view it proved the concept doesn’t work. I assume the turbine version is to make up for that shortcoming, while not solving the others.

It’s a neat concept, but not much better than the Raptor in terms of a realistic commercial application.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 15:13 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 3614
Post Likes: +2258
Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
Username Protected wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xLlN3HjsvC0

I think this could actually happen.



That's a very weird, *machine-narrated* video. It would be a long, long way off even if.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 15:58 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/10/10
Posts: 46
Post Likes: +13
Location: KNQA
Aircraft: TBM910, PA18
Supersonic laminar flow? Nope... not by a long shot. Nice marketing video though.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 16:05 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/24/18
Posts: 599
Post Likes: +684
Location: KHFD
Aircraft: F33A
Laminar flow isn’t the controlling issue while flying at high sonic/supersonic speeds.

It’s the drag bulge at the wing fuselage intersection (solvable by area ruling). The airplane shown in the video is going to run into the same wall every other design in the last 50 years has.

Even the Concorde couldn’t overcome the issue, so they used brute force (I.e., 4 turbojet engines) to fly supersonic.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 16:32 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 03/28/17
Posts: 8207
Post Likes: +10377
Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
It needs a really long nose. :)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 16:33 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3137
Post Likes: +2282
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
Username Protected wrote:
Laminar flow isn’t the controlling issue while flying at high sonic/supersonic speeds.

It’s the drag bulge at the wing fuselage intersection (solvable by area ruling). The airplane shown in the video is going to run into the same wall every other design in the last 50 years has.

Even the Concorde couldn’t overcome the issue, so they used brute force (I.e., 4 turbojet engines) to fly supersonic.


These guys are using the laminar flow magic and should be using area rule and the raptor was claiming area rule and should have been using the laminar flow magic. Maybe they should get together and swap marketing.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2024, 17:26 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/25/17
Posts: 204
Post Likes: +167
Location: Savannah, GA (KSAV)
Aircraft: 1959 Bonanza K35
Username Protected wrote:
I think this will be forever using up development money with occasional hardware flights to keep investment interest. Moller Skycar...

Forget the diesel and put a proven common engine on the 500 airframe to still have an efficient airplane with stand up cabin. Let the airframe technology prove it's worth with a baseline from a standard engine.

Once the airplane is proven continue with the advanced high altitude diesel to have the full package later. Small steps not all at once with a manufacturing startup.


Interesting point. It ran on a new-design diesel engine, I wonder how it would have performed with a PT-6 on the back? Single-engine Avanti that can fill the niche left by the demise of Piaggio?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 05:27 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/10/17
Posts: 2123
Post Likes: +1547
Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
yes exactly that. I think most of their airframe technology appears to be the top surface of a laminar flow airfoil lofted in a circle to make the fuselage shape. But if it works it gives a good volume to work with. With the engine they used and lack of rear world numbers it's hard to tell if the airplane is efficient or not. I wonder what other airplanes if any flew with that engine and the results?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Otto Celera 800
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2024, 11:37 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 14238
Post Likes: +16095
Company: Midwest Chemtrails, LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
Username Protected wrote:
I wonder what other airplanes if any flew with that engine and the results?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RED_A03

_________________
Holoholo …


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next



Aviation Fabricators (Bottom Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025

.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.mcfarlane-85x50.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.KingAirMaint85_50.png.
.performanceaero-85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.holymicro-85x50.jpg.
.bkool-85x50-2014-08-04.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.Elite-85x50.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.ocraviation-85x50.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.aerox_85x100.png.